Falling matter of supernova does work heating the core?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanics of a supernova core collapse, specifically whether the falling matter does work that contributes to heating the core. Participants explore the dynamics of momentum changes, forces acting on the core, and the interactions between different layers of the star during the collapse.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions whether the large radial time rate change in momentum from inwardly-flowing matter, which slows down, exerts a force on the core comparable to gravitational forces from accreted outer layers.
  • Another participant suggests researching the application of ideal gas laws to understand the pressure and temperature dynamics, noting that these laws may only serve as approximations due to the lack of thermal equilibrium in the layers.
  • A third participant shares links to articles discussing thermodynamics in the context of supernova core collapse, indicating that these resources may provide further insights into the topic.
  • There is mention of a potential relationship between pressure changes and temperature in the context of work done, although the accuracy of this statement is uncertain.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are multiple competing views regarding the mechanics of the core collapse and the role of different forces and thermodynamic principles.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential inapplicability of ideal gas laws due to non-equilibrium conditions and the complexity of interactions between various layers of the star.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in astrophysics, particularly those studying supernova dynamics, thermodynamics, and core collapse phenomena.

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Falling matter of supernova does "work" heating the core?

A supernova core collapses and the rest of the star follows, inner layers arrive first, a shock wave wave forms?

As outer layers continue to collapse and slow down is there a large radial time rate change in momentum as rapidly inwardly-flowing matter violently slows down?

Does this time rate change in momentum cause a force on the core comparable to the force given by the gravitational force due to mass of accretted outer layers?

Do both these forces do work on the core, compress it, and heat it up?

In the following video there is a simulation of a supernova core with what I guess is shown either violent motion of the matter of the inner core or pressure waves? Can one assume that the surrounding layers of the star not shown interact with this violent sloshing around by the core? See the 30 second mark. Is this violent motion ultimately "driven" by the outer layers?



Thanks for any help!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
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This isn't an easy question to answer. I will take a stab at providing a direction of research to aid you.

In this example you involve pressure, kinetic energy, temperature and the various forms of matter involved at different layers. Those various forms of matter have different maximum density values.

So if I were you I would study how you can employ the ideal gas laws into this. Yes the ideal gas laws would only serve as an approximation as the various layers are not in thermal equilibrium. So you will only be able to loosely apply it. It may or may not simplify the various dynamics at work. Obviously the variations between layers would require the gas laws but not the ideal gas laws themself. However the layers in thermal equilibrium could be treated as such with the regions out of equlibrium serving as the boundary.

Hope that helps, I've seen similar treatments employed in metrics involving accretion disks
in this article

http://arxiv.org/abs/1104.5499

you may or may not be able to find the appropriate metric examples in this article. Hopefully you can.

As far as whether the pressure, temperature or othe factord is doing the work. One textbook I have but cannot post "Thermodynamics of the Universe" can't recall the author and the textbook is currently packed has an applicable statement. Hopefully I have it correct.

"In thermodynamics the work done by changes of pressure is done by the temperature"

my memory might be incorrect on that though
 
Last edited:
You may find this link of interest I located it and other articles by googling "thermodynamics of a supernova core collapse

http://m.ptep.oxfordjournals.org/content/2012/1/01A309.full

looking at some other articles so may add more

edit this is one of the better articles.. Should answer your questions

http://arXiv.org/abs/1210.4921
 
Last edited:
Mordred, many thanks for the pointers! Have a good weekend!
 

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