For ## n>1 ##, show that every prime divisor of ## n+1 ## is an odd integer

  • Thread starter Thread starter Math100
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Integer Prime
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that every prime divisor of \( n! + 1 \) is an odd integer for \( n > 1 \). The subject area includes number theory and properties of prime numbers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the proof structure and clarity, with some questioning the necessity of detailed explanations. There are mentions of the relationship between prime factors and factorials, particularly regarding divisibility.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the proof, providing feedback on clarity and detail. Some have offered insights into key observations related to divisibility and the implications of the factorial definition, while others express confusion about certain statements and their justifications.

Contextual Notes

There is a recognition of the challenge in balancing detail and readability in mathematical proofs, with some participants noting the importance of clear explanations for all readers.

Math100
Messages
823
Reaction score
234
Homework Statement
For ## n>1 ##, show that every prime divisor of ## n!+1 ## is an odd integer that is greater than ## n ##.
Relevant Equations
None.
Proof:

Suppose for the sake of contradiction that there exists a prime divisor of ## n!+1 ##,
which is an odd integer that is not greater than ## n ##.
Let ## n>1 ## be an integer.
Since ## n! ## is even,
it follows that ## n!+1 ## is odd.
Thus ## 2\nmid (n!+1) ##.
This means every prime factor of ## n!+1 ## is an odd integer.
Let ## p ## be a prime factor of ## n!+1 ## such that ## p\leq n ##.
Then we have ## p\mid n! ## and ## p\mid (n!+1) ##.
Thus ## p\mid 1 ##, which implies that ## p=\pm 1 ##.
This is a contradiction because ## p ## must be a prime number where ## p\neq \pm 1 ##, so ## p\nleq n ##.
Therefore, for ## n>1 ##, every prime divisor of ## n!+1 ## is an odd integer that is greater than ## n ##.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Looks right, but a bit laboured.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Math100
PeroK said:
Looks right, but a bit laboured.
What do you mean by 'laboured'? I do not understand this.
 
Math100 said:
What do you mean by 'laboured'? I do not understand this.
This, for example:

Math100 said:
Since ## n! ## is even,
it follows that ## n!+1 ## is odd.
Thus ## 2\nmid (n!+1) ##.
This means every prime factor of ## n!+1 ## is an odd integer.
Could simply be replaced by this:

Math100 said:
Since ## n! ## is even, every prime factor of ## n!+1 ## is odd.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Math100
I guess I wrote too many words.
 
Math100 said:
I guess I wrote too many words.
The problem will come when you get more difficult proofs. Too much detail will make such proofs unreadable.
You have some good ideas that are not easy to see, but then you take 3-4 lines to convince us that an odd number is not even!
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Math100
Math100 said:
I guess I wrote too many words.
In some places, but you have not written any words to justify the key statement of the proof:

Math100 said:
Let ## p ## be a prime factor of ## n!+1 ## such that ## p\leq n ##.
Then we have ## p\mid n!##
Why?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Mark44
SPOILER ALERT!if 1<p ≤ n, then p divides n!, so the remainder after dividing (n!+1) by p is 1. Hence p does not divide n!+1.

This is the key observation in Euclid's original proof that there is no limit to the number of primes. I admit I myself found it mysterious when I first saw it. I just didn't realize that if p divided both n! and n!+1 then p would divide 1. This is the famous and useful (and trivial) "3 term principle".
 
mathwonk said:
This is the famous and useful (and trivial) "3 term principle".
Yes but the exercise is to prove it. I don't see how you can do that without something like "from the definition of the factorial, every p not greater than n divides n!".
 
  • #10
the 3 term principle says that if p divides both a and b, and a+b = c, then p divides c. or also if p divides any 2 of the 3 terms, a,b,c, then it divides the third. this is a pretty easy exercise.

"from the definition of the factorial, every p not greater than n divides n!".

forgive me, this is so obvious as to not seem to be needed to be mentioned. but you are right, this is a key step. i just assumed someone using the notation n! knows what it means. or rather, when outlining a short "proof" i tend to omit steps which i think have been rendered so obvious as to suggest themselves to the reader.

In this example of course, if the reader is someone who does not notice that n! is divisible by every integer between 1 and n, then your explanation is more appropriate than mine. of course you are right, the clearest explanation is always one that gives all the steps.
cheers!
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
1K
Replies
8
Views
4K
  • · Replies 7 ·
Replies
7
Views
2K
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 15 ·
Replies
15
Views
2K
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
4K