Free Electron Laser: Relativistic Particle Velocity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of relativistic electrons in the context of free electron lasers, specifically focusing on the minimum velocity required for electrons to be considered relativistic and the implications of this on the operation of free electron lasers.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants inquire about the minimum velocity of an electron that qualifies as relativistic, seeking clarification on the concept.
  • One participant mentions that once the energy of electrons reaches the MeV range, theoretical calculations assume their speed is effectively the speed of light (c) without significant loss of accuracy.
  • Another participant questions whether non-relativistic electrons exist and at what speed electrons transition to being relativistic, suggesting that this occurs when kinetic energy is comparable to rest mass energy.
  • It is noted that relativistic effects can be negligible for particles moving at very low speeds compared to c, but the precision of measurements can render even small velocities relativistic.
  • A participant explains that free electron lasers require highly relativistic electrons to ensure their speed closely matches that of emitted photons, which is crucial for the coherent radiation process.
  • Discussion includes the incompatibility of non-relativistic electrons with the design of magnetic fields in free electron lasers, as well as the existence of a lower-energy variant called Bremsstrahlung, which allows for significant radiated power at lower energies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definition and implications of relativistic versus non-relativistic electrons, with no consensus reached on the specific minimum velocity or the broader implications for free electron lasers.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the dependence on definitions of relativistic energy and the assumptions involved in theoretical calculations, as well as the varying interpretations of when relativistic effects become significant.

scupydog
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"The free electron laser uses a beam of relativistic electrons passing through a periodic, transverse magnetic field to produce coherent radiation."

The above is a quote from an online book, could anyone tell me what is the minimum velocity of an electron that is relativistic, ie its fraction of the speed of light. thx
 
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scupydog said:
"The free electron laser uses a beam of relativistic electrons passing through a periodic, transverse magnetic field to produce coherent radiation."

The above is a quote from an online book, could anyone tell me what is the minimum velocity of an electron that is relativistic, ie its fraction of the speed of light. thx

Once the energy gets to the MeV range, ALL theoretical calculations for such electrons assume that the speed is c without loss of much accuracy.

Zz.
 
Thx ZapperZ, but your reply doesn't help much. maybe i should have asked , is there such thing as a non relativistic electron and if so at what point (speed) does it become relativistic, thx
 
scupydog said:
Thx ZapperZ, but your reply doesn't help much. maybe i should have asked , is there such thing as a non relativistic electron and if so at what point (speed) does it become relativistic, thx

When the kinetic energy is comparable to the rest mass energy.

Zz.
 
In a sense everything is relativistic.(of course the relativistic effects for particles with very small velocity comparing to c are very small).it depends how precise one wants to be.the classical energy (p^2/2m) can be obtained from the relativistic energy expanding for a small veloity.then you have as well other terms including higher powers of the fraction of u/c but it's up to you where you will stop it...
 
Very true, if your measurement is accurate enough, very low speeds are relativistic.

With the atomic clocks we have nowadays, a moderate car speed is relativistic. A running man is almost relativistic. Funny notion.

A free electron laser needs highly relativistic electrons because their speed must almost match the one of the emitted photons so the field emitted at each deviation adds up over the whole wiggler. So take much more than 511keV.

Also, even the radiation at one single magnet depends strongly on the electron's energy.

A less obvious reason: if you take non-relativistic electrons, the period of the magnetic poles is short, but you need magnets wide apart in the transverse direction because the beam can't be concentrated at will - and as static magnetic fields can't be short and wide, this is incompatible.

The lower-energy variant is called Bremsstrahlung (or braking radiation, no idea why it isn't translated). There you may take lower energies and still have a significant radiated power, with or without the magnetic wiggler.

Bye!
 

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