Fuel usage to accelerate to 20 mph

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around estimating the fuel required to accelerate a small car from a stop to 20 mph, with implications for fuel savings by potentially eliminating unnecessary stop signs. Participants explore various methods for calculation, assumptions about vehicle efficiency, and the broader impact on fuel consumption.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes calculating fuel consumption based on vehicle weight and acceleration rate, suggesting that eliminating stop signs could lead to significant fuel savings.
  • Another participant encourages the use of Newton's equations of motion and the definition of work to approach the problem mathematically, indicating that assumptions about acceleration are necessary.
  • A different participant expresses concern about their mathematical skills and suggests an empirical approach by conducting a driving experiment to measure fuel consumption.
  • One participant critiques the empirical method proposed, arguing that 100 stops may not yield reasonable data and provides a calculation of energy required for acceleration, estimating fuel consumption in milliliters.
  • Another participant suggests converting fuel savings into CO2 emissions for a more compelling argument regarding environmental impact.
  • A participant comments on the thermal efficiency of car engines compared to larger diesel engines, indicating that car engines operate at lower efficiency under certain conditions.
  • One participant asserts that a significant portion of drivers do not utilize fuel-efficient driving habits, which undermines the benefits of new fuel mileage technologies.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the methods for estimating fuel consumption, with some advocating for mathematical calculations and others favoring empirical data collection. There is no consensus on the best approach or the implications of the findings.

Contextual Notes

Participants mention various assumptions, such as vehicle weight, acceleration rates, and driving habits, which may affect the calculations and conclusions drawn. The discussion also highlights the limitations of empirical data in accurately reflecting fuel consumption.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in automotive efficiency, environmental impact, and fuel consumption calculations may find this discussion relevant.

zanes
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In an effort to approach the EPA on the subject of eliminating unnecessary stop signs in an effort to reduce fuel consumption nationally, I am trying to determine approximately how much fuel is required to accelerate from a dead stop to 20 mph. With all the variables (vehicle weight, acceleration rate, etc.) , I would simply like to take a small car (3000 lbs) that would normally be in the 30mpg range for city driving at a "normal" acceleration rate. With such a number in hand, calculating the minimum fuel savings given the traffic counts at any given stop sign could be easily computed. I strongly suspect that there are millions of unnecessary stop signs in the U.S., and that eliminating them would save many millions of gallons of wasted fuel. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Zanes
 
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Welcome to PF.

Do you know Newton's equations of motion? The definition (mathematical) of work? You'll need to make an assumption about how fast the acceleration is, but after that, it is a pretty straightforward calculation. Why don't you give it a try and we'll see if/where you get hung up.
 
I think this site is out of my depth. In math I didn't get much beyond the Pythagorean Theorem, and finding the hypotenuse doesn't seem to be germaine to the problem. Looks like Plan B, empirical data, is in my future. If I accelerate my car to 20mph, then decelerate to 0mph 100 times, then refill my tank, then drive the same route at 20mph, filling my tank a second time, I can get my answer (and wear out my brakes.) Thank you for responding, though. Zane Suedmeyer
 
I don't think this experiment will give reasonable data with just 100 stops.

The kinetic energy of 1000kg, moving at 10m/s (a bit more than 20mph), is E=1/2mv^2 = 50kJ. Cars are quite inefficient, so we can assume at least 100kJ required energy in the fuel. Petrol has an energy density of about 35MJ/l, therefore 100kJ correspond to 1/350l or about 3ml. With 1.4€ to 1.7€ per liter (roughly the price in Germany), this costs 0.4 to 0.5 (euro)cents.
All calculations are easy without a calculator. SI units are so nice ;).
 
zanes said:
I think this site is out of my depth. In math I didn't get much beyond the Pythagorean Theorem...
Didn't Algebra I come before geometry?

This site can help anyone who is willing to learn, regardless of their current knowledge level.
 
You might want to consider converting mfb's excellent answer into CO2 emissions. You would have a politically more attractive argument if you use CO2 rather than cents.
 
Only the very largest of ships diesel engines achieve a thermal efficiency of 50% the conversion factor for a car engine is more like 25% at reduced throttle openings.
 
I venture that 70% of the driving population drive in such a way as to negate the advantages of new fuel mileage technologies.

They will not change driving habits to get the most out of the technology.
 

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