Gravity as a cancellation force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the nature of gravity, specifically the idea that gravity may act as a cancellation force rather than an attractive force. Participants explore the implications of this notion, including its potential connection to the elusive graviton and the Casimir effect, while also referencing historical perspectives on gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that gravity could cancel instead of attracting, suggesting this might explain difficulties in locating the graviton.
  • One participant mentions the Casimir effect, speculating that proximity of objects disrupts the field, potentially leading to a collapse of a repelling field.
  • Another participant argues that the existence of gravitons might be undetectable due to their low energy and that any hypothesis must align with General Relativity (GR) at observable energies.
  • A participant raises the quantum Zeno effect as a possible analogy, questioning if mass creates a similar effect through strong coupling with nearby objects.
  • One participant references a historical proposal from 1690 that gravity acts as a cancellation force, asserting that this idea contradicts observations and would lead to catastrophic consequences if true.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the nature of gravity and the existence of gravitons. There is no consensus on the validity of the cancellation force hypothesis, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the speculative nature of their hypotheses and the need for any proposed theory to match observable phenomena as described by General Relativity. There are references to historical theories that conflict with current observations, but these are not resolved within the discussion.

genphis
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is it possible that gravity cancels as opposed to attracts, and could that be the reason that we cannot locate the graviton. I'm thinking of the casimir effect and the closer objects are to each other there is a disruption in the field. and the field that normally repels can collapse.

just a thought
 
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genphis said:
is it possible that gravity cancels as opposed to attracts, and could that be the reason that we cannot locate the graviton. I'm thinking of the casimir effect and the closer objects are to each other there is a disruption in the field. and the field that normally repels can collapse.

just a thought

Welcome to PhysicsForums, genphis!

I would say that the existence of gravitons might not be detected for a number of reasons. They may not exist! Also, gravitons may be too difficult to detect individually because of their very low energy. Presumably, large numbers of them act as predicted by General Relativity; if so, there is no good way to distinguish a quantum explanation from GR except at conditions similar to the Big Bang.

The point is: any explanation is somewhat speculative at this point, yet any hypothesis must match GR at energies similar to those of the observable world. One important requirement of any hypothesis: mass slows the passage of time per GR, an effect that is observable. None of the other quantum forces have this dynamic relationship.

I do not believe there are any quantum gravity candidate theories that have the feature you propose. Do you see why?
 
DrChinese said:
One important requirement of any hypothesis: mass slows the passage of time per GR, an effect that is observable. None of the other quantum forces have this dynamic relationship.

Er.. quantum Zeno effect? I was always curious, if a large chunk of mass in fact simply creates some kind of quantum Zeno effect (by strongly coupling with nearby objects). Not even wrong?
 
genphis said:
is it possible that gravity cancels as opposed to attracts

This was first proposed in 1690. It is in gross violation with observation - it predicts an unobserved drag force, an unobserved violation of the equivalence principle, and an unobserved and catastrophic degree of heating of all matter - if this theory were correct, we'd all be incinerated within moments.
 

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