Help Improve Newton's Laws of Motion on Wikipedia

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the state of the Wikipedia article on Newton's laws of motion, with participants expressing concerns about its quality and comprehensiveness. The scope includes critiques of the article's content, suggestions for improvement, and reflections on the role of Wikipedia as a resource for learning classical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that the article is poorly written and lacks important discussions on topics such as inertial reference frames, the interpretation of the first law, and the validity of the third law in classical electrodynamics.
  • Another participant suggests that improving the article could lead to an endless cycle of revisions to maintain consistency and correctness, questioning the appropriateness of Wikipedia as a serious source for advanced physics.
  • Some participants note that Wikipedia is not like traditional encyclopedias and can accommodate detailed information, potentially serving both general and specialist audiences.
  • There is a sentiment expressed that Wikipedia may not be considered a serious source for advanced topics in physics and mathematics, reflecting personal opinions rather than a consensus.
  • A participant mentions their own contributions to Wikipedia, indicating a personal engagement with the platform.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and feasibility of improving the Wikipedia article. Some advocate for enhancements, while others believe that such efforts may not be warranted or practical. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the overall value of Wikipedia as a resource for advanced physics topics.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in access to quality resources, suggesting that some may rely on Wikipedia due to a lack of alternatives. There is also an acknowledgment of the challenges in maintaining accuracy and detail in a collaborative editing environment.

loom91
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Hi,

You have most probably heard about the internet phenomenon Wikipedia, now the world's largest, an encyclopedia that anyone can edit. But currently, the article on Newton's laws of motion is in a poor state. It needs your help to get upto shape. You can edit the page by clicking the edit button at the top right of the page (no registration required). You can also edit a particular section by clicking the small edit button to the right of every section header. If you can't format, just dump your writing, someone else will cleanup.

I reproduce the appeal of a contributor below:-

"Newton first published his remarkably concise and simple formalism about Nature in 1687. His three Laws of Motion turned out to be far ahead of their time, more accurate than the accuracy of experimental data available to Newton. More than three centuries later, after Classical Mechanics was taken to its climax, considered a dead science and resurrected once more, they remain the prototype of physical theories and high practical utility. More sophisticated reformulations of classical mechanics, while in many ways outstripping Newton's original formulation which seems almost childishly simple compared to the level of mathematical complexity inherent in these formalisms, still lose to Newton's Laws of Motion in terms of practical usefulness because of their failure to model systems with the dissipation approximation.

It is sad indeed, therefore, to see our article on this remarkable theory of Physics lie neglected. The level of exposition is suited to Children's Learning Library, not a serious encyclopedia. Nothing is mentioned about the significance of inertial reference frames. No reference is made to the interpretation of the first law of motion as a definition, no explanation is given why the first law must be considered independent of and preceding the second law. Detailed discussions are not provided about the validity of the strong and weak forms of the third law in the context of classical electrodynamics. No mention at all of their reformulation without using the concept of force, depending on momentum and energy. Very important topics such as the role of Galilean relativity in Newtonian mechanics and the subsequent need to formulate the formalism of the theory in terms of fiber bundles is absent, as is the role of symplectic spaces.

My grasp of physics is not advanced enough to undertake these tasks without the fear of mistake, therefore I appeal to you to improve this article. The current state of the article, particularly in comparison with our articles on Lagrangian Mechanics, Hamiltonian Mechanics, Hamilton-Jacobi equation etc, gives the distinct impression that the contributors considered NLM to be a theory without any mathematical beauty or elegance behind it, something only children do. This situation must be rectified, most importantly for students just learning the theory who may visit our pages for an extended perspective and academics who may have lost sight of the theory's remarkable power when faced with the cacophony of alternative theories."

Thanks for your help.

Molu
 
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That's why nobody votes Newton in the other thread
 
xAxis said:
That's why nobody votes Newton in the other thread

What thread?
 
loom91 said:
...It is sad indeed, therefore, to see our article on this remarkable theory of Physics lie neglected. The level of exposition is suited to Children's Learning Library, not a serious encyclopedia. Nothing is mentioned about the significance of inertial reference frames. No reference is made to the interpretation of the first law of motion as a definition, no explanation is given why the first law must be considered independent of and preceding the second law. Detailed discussions are not provided about the validity of the strong and weak forms of the third law in the context of classical electrodynamics. No mention at all of their reformulation without using the concept of force, depending on momentum and energy. Very important topics such as the role of Galilean relativity in Newtonian mechanics and the subsequent need to formulate the formalism of the theory in terms of fiber bundles is absent, as is the role of symplectic spaces...

Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, as is known. If one wants to learn classical mechanics at a more advanced level, he cartainley will not consider Wikipedia as his main source of knowledge. Hence, I think there is no need to 'upgrade' anything, because, if you started to do so, you simply could not stop (in order to keep everything consistent, correct and perfectly correlated), which would make Wikipedia a physical encyclopedia, which it certainly was not meant to be.
 
When I read this thread in General Physics, I ran it past the general criteria for theads in that forum. Is this thread doing physics... no. What is this thread about... Wiki..Therefore the only place in our forums we should be discussing another website is GD.
 
radou said:
Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, as is known. If one wants to learn classical mechanics at a more advanced level, he cartainley will not consider Wikipedia as his main source of knowledge. Hence, I think there is no need to 'upgrade' anything, because, if you started to do so, you simply could not stop (in order to keep everything consistent, correct and perfectly correlated), which would make Wikipedia a physical encyclopedia, which it certainly was not meant to be.

Actually Wikipedia is not like conventional encyclopedias. There is a policy called wiki is not paper and there is no limit to details. Its goal is o replace general as well as specialist encyclopedias. If you look at some of the featured physics articles you will find high level of mathematical detail.
 
loom91 said:
Actually Wikipedia is not like conventional encyclopedias. There is a policy called wiki is not paper and there is no limit to details. Its goal is o replace general as well as specialist encyclopedias. If you look at some of the featured physics articles you will find high level of mathematical detail.

May be, but it's still not a a place which I would consider as a serious source of information related to physical and mathematical topics in general. But, this is just my opinion, nothing more. :smile:
 
I have some stuff in wikipedia, don't know what that says about it though.
 
radou said:
May be, but it's still not a a place which I would consider as a serious source of information related to physical and mathematical topics in general. But, this is just my opinion, nothing more. :smile:

Few have access to good libraries or online repositories.
 

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