How Are Math and Science Interconnected?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between mathematics and science, particularly focusing on whether one can be derived from the other or if they are distinct fields. The conversation delves into theoretical frameworks within physics, specifically quantum field theories and their interconnections.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the relationship between mathematics and science, asking if they can be derived from one another.
  • Another participant mentions Quantum Electrodynamics (QED), Quantum Chromodynamics (QCD), and Quantum Field Theory (QFT) as interconnected theories within physics.
  • A detailed explanation of QFT is provided, defining it as a general term for theories involving fields acted on by quantum operators.
  • QED is described as a specific example of QFT, focusing on electric and magnetic fields, while QCD is noted for its relation to color charges on quarks.
  • A participant elaborates on the gauge theories underlying QED and QCD, discussing the importance of local phase transformations and the necessity of understanding QFT before studying these theories.
  • Analogies are drawn between QFT and the Schrödinger equation in quantum mechanics, emphasizing the role of potentials and symmetries in both frameworks.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present various perspectives on the relationship between mathematics and science, with no consensus reached on whether one can be derived from the other. The discussion includes technical details about quantum theories, indicating a shared interest in the topic but also highlighting the complexity of the interconnections.

Contextual Notes

The discussion includes assumptions about the prior knowledge of participants regarding quantum theories and does not resolve the foundational questions posed about the relationship between mathematics and science.

Matterwave
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How are they related? Can you derive one from another, or are they separate fields of study?
 
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QED, and QCD and QFD are theories based on QFT.
 
QFT = "Quantum Field Theory" sort of a general term for any theory which involves a field (something defined at every point in space and time) that is acted on with quantum operators.
QED = "Quantum Electrodynamics" which is one example of a quantum field theory, where the fields are the electric and magnetic fields that arise from electrical charges and currents.
QCD = "Quantum Chromodynamics" which is another example of a quantum field theory, where the field comes from the "color charges" on quarks (and gluons I suppose).
 
One can say something about the relation QED vs. QCD, QED is based on the invariance of a local phase transformation of the fields according to the group U(1). One starts with a free lagrangian of fermions (no interactions) and by demanding this local invariance, one has to include interactions. This is called a Gauge Theory, and QCD is also a gauge theory, but with SU(3) group for the local phase transformations.

In order to stody QED and QCD, one has to study QFT first. And very very often, QED is assumed to be know in quite detail before you attempt to learn QCD. You can think of QFT as the analogy with the Schrödinger equation in QM. In Schrödinger equation, the potential is unknown, and you can use potentials to fit a known phenomenon. Examples: The Hydrogen Atom, use a Coulomb potential. For semiconductors, use a step potential. Etc. In Quantum Field theory, you do in a similar way, you include the fields, fermions and/or boson fields, and interaction terms, and then you start to calculate observables and see if they fit with experiments. Also, one would like to have underlying symmetries, like these local phase transformations.
 
Ok, thanks. :)
 

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