How Can a Particle Move Downwards and Be Displaced Upwards in a Wave?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concepts of particle movement and displacement in the context of waves, particularly transverse waves. Participants explore the distinction between movement and displacement, referencing Newton's laws and kinematics to clarify their understanding of these terms.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a particle can move downwards while being displaced upwards, seeking clarification on the difference between movement and displacement.
  • Another participant provides an analogy involving skiing to illustrate that displacement can occur in one direction while movement occurs in another, suggesting that this is a familiar concept in Newton's laws.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the skiing analogy and seeks further clarification on the physical quantities involved in movement and displacement.
  • Discussion includes definitions of movement as "momentum" or "velocity," and position as "distance" or "displacement," with an emphasis on the nuances of these terms.
  • One participant suggests that a particle can be displaced downwards while having a negative velocity if it is below the equilibrium position in a sinusoidal wave graph.
  • Another participant explains the oscillation of points in a wave and the relationship between position-time and velocity-time graphs, reinforcing the idea that height can be positive while velocity can be negative.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the concepts of movement and displacement, with some agreeing on the definitions while others remain confused. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the clarity of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference Newton's laws and kinematics, indicating a shared background knowledge, but there are unresolved points regarding the interpretation of movement and displacement in wave mechanics.

vadevalor
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How can a particle move downwards and be displaced upwards? Sounds paradoxical. I understand the part about movement but not displacement. What's the difference? Isnt displacement like the amplitude so when a particle in a transverse wave move down doesn't it mean its displaced downward?
 
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vadevalor said:
How can a particle move downwards and be displaced upwards?
The same way a skiier can be displaced a long way up a mountain but be moving (skiing) down it.
You have already met this sort of thing in your work on Newton's laws of motion.

I understand the part about movement but not displacement. What's the difference? Isn't displacement like the amplitude so when a particle in a transverse wave move down doesn't it mean its displaced downward?
When you displace a string in the +y direction, and let go, which direction does it move in? What physical quantity describes "movement"?
 
I'm sorry i still don't get the skiing part too :( hmm movement the physical qty is distance??
 
for movement, the physical quantity is "momentum" but I'd accept "velocity".
for position, the physical quantity is "distance", I'd accept "displacement".

something can have a positive displacement and a negative velocity if it is headed back to the origin.
have you not covered Newton's laws yet? kinematics? v-t graphs?
 
I have covered Newton's law and i understand that part. I think i got you now :) so a particle will be displaced downwards regardless of movement when it is below the eqm position?( in a graph of sinusoidal waves diagram)
 
That's right - in a wave of form ##y(x,t)=A\sin k(x-vt)## each point x will be oscilating about y=0 as ##y(t)=A\sin \omega t## the plot will give you a position-time graph. The velocity time graph is the derivative of this: ##v(t)=\omega A \cos \omega t## ... if you plot them above one another (so the time axis coincides) you'll see the relationship.

You should know from your Newton's laws and kinematics work that an object can be above the ground (positive height) and be falling (negative velocity). It's not just height that can be positive ... something with a negative horizontal displacement (say, it is to the left of the observer/origin and distances to the right are positive) can have a positive velocity (it is moving left-to-right). This should not be a mystery to you.
 

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