How do we detect and study dark matter in our universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the detection and study of dark matter (DM) in the universe, exploring its presence around various gravitating bodies, implications for galaxy formation, and the challenges in understanding its properties and effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that dark matter is expected to exist around all gravitating bodies, including clusters, galaxies, stars, and planets, and question if any galaxies have been observed without dark matter halos.
  • One participant suggests that the mass of dark matter particles could affect their binding to stars or planets, with neutrino-mass particles potentially having difficulty remaining bound.
  • Another participant mentions that the density of dark matter particles near the center of the sun might be sufficient to produce detectable annihilation signatures by neutrino observatories.
  • Some participants argue that explaining the rapid formation of massive galaxies in the early universe without dark matter is challenging, suggesting it is compelling evidence for a dark matter-dominated universe.
  • There is a discussion about how dark matter was mixed with baryonic matter in the early universe, and the complexities involved in galaxy formation without dark matter.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the implications of dark matter for galaxy formation, questioning how a massive galaxy could shed its dark matter while still forming.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the difficulty of explaining galaxy formation without dark matter, but there are differing views on the implications of dark matter's properties and its role in the universe, leaving the discussion unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various models and observations, including potential exceptions in the form of elliptical galaxies lacking dark matter, but the discussion does not resolve these complexities or assumptions.

wolram
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Isn't Dark Matter supposed to exist around ANY gravitating body, clusters, galaxies, stars, and planets? Have we ever seen a galaxy that does not seem to have a dark matter halo? If so, then it would seem that Dark Matter would have to be some sort of gravitational effect (on perhaps the zero point energy), right?
 
Mike2 said:
Isn't Dark Matter supposed to exist around ANY gravitating body, clusters, galaxies, stars, and planets?

That will depend upon the mass of the dark matter particle. A neutrino-mass particle, for example, would have difficulty remaining bound to a star or planet. I believe that even the heaviest of proposed dark matter particles would contribute negligibly to the mass of bodies in the solar system. However, the density of such particles near the center of the sun might be large enough that they would produce an annihilation signature detectable by neutrino observatories.


Have we ever seen a galaxy that does not seem to have a dark matter halo?

There have been elliptical galaxies observed that do not appear to have dark matter:

http://www.arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0308518"


If so, then it would seem that Dark Matter would have to be some sort of gravitational effect (on perhaps the zero point energy), right?

I don't see how this follows. In CDM models, I find it rather difficult to explain how a massive galaxy could be formed without dark matter.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Ditto, ST. It is very difficult to explain how massive galaxies formed so quickly in the early universe without dark matter. That, to me, is the most compelling evidence of a DM dominated universe, unless of course BBT is wrong - which would open up a kettle of fish more than a few days old.
 
Chronos said:
Ditto, ST. It is very difficult to explain how massive galaxies formed so quickly in the early universe without dark matter. That, to me, is the most compelling evidence of a DM dominated universe, unless of course BBT is wrong - which would open up a kettle of fish more than a few days old.

That isn't quite what I meant, but is a good point. Galaxy formation is difficult in the absence of dark matter.

All I meant is that the dark matter in the early universe was well mixed with the baryonic matter. Any overdensity that collapsed into a galaxy would have contained significant quantities of both. There are methods of removing the baryonic matter (such as stellar outflows), but I don't know how a massive galaxy could shed its dark matter.
 

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