How Large Can a Planet be and Still Have Earth's Mass?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the question of how large a planet can be while still maintaining the mass of Earth, considering factors such as composition, density, and suitability for human life. The scope includes theoretical considerations and mathematical reasoning related to planetary density and gravitational effects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the size of a planet with Earth's mass depends on its density, with lower density allowing for a larger size.
  • One participant questions the vagueness of the term "solid" and asks for clarification on what type of life is being considered.
  • Another participant proposes that a planet composed entirely of ice could be less than 2 Earth diameters in size, while also suggesting that such a body might be classified as a comet.
  • A participant emphasizes that a suitable planet for humans should not have a gravitational pull exceeding 10% greater than Earth's.
  • Mathematical formulations of gravitational forces and surface acceleration are presented, with a focus on the relationship between gravitational acceleration, density, and radius.
  • Concerns are raised about the dependence of density on gravitational acceleration and radius, as well as the uncertainty surrounding Earth's uncompressed density.
  • Some participants argue that the question of how large an Earth-mass solid planet can be ultimately relates to the compressibility of materials at high pressures.
  • Alternative low-density materials such as water, ammonia, and methane are proposed as potential compositions for a solid planet, with discussions on their densities and implications for size.
  • One participant notes that compression will not change the mass of a planet but will affect its overall density and diameter.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the definitions and implications of density, composition, and the relevance of compressibility, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without consensus.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in understanding the compressibility of materials at high pressures, which affects the ability to estimate the size of a planet with Earth's mass. There is also uncertainty regarding the uncompressed density of Earth.

Yae Miteo
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Question: Just as in the title. How large can a planet be and still have the Earth's mass? Obviously, this depends on its composition, just as long as it's solid and life can exist on it.
 
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It depends on the density. Lower density means a bigger planet and vice versa.
 
Yae Miteo said:
Question: Just as in the title. How large can a planet be and still have the Earth's mass? Obviously, this depends on its composition, just as long as it's solid and life can exist on it.

Your question is very vague. Define "solid". What "life" do you have in mind?
 
If a planet were composed entirely of ice [highly improbable], it would be less than 2 Earth diameters in size.
 
Chronos said:
If a planet were composed entirely of ice [highly improbable], it would be less than 2 Earth diameters in size.

I would call that a 'comet.'
 
Okay, basically, "How large can a planet be and still be suitable for humans, i.e. not have an excessive gravitational pull. (no more than say, 10% greater than earth's)"
 
Newton's Law of Gravitation:
F = G*M1*M2/r^2
The surface acceleration of a planet (M2) is:
g = G*m2/r^2
but m2 = (4/3)*pi*r^3*d where d is the average density of the planet
so g = (4/3)*G*pi*r*d

Choose your favorite g and d and solve for r.
 
tadchem said:
Newton's Law of Gravitation:
F = G*M1*M2/r^2
The surface acceleration of a planet (M2) is:
g = G*m2/r^2
but m2 = (4/3)*pi*r^3*d where d is the average density of the planet
so g = (4/3)*G*pi*r*d

Choose your favorite g and d and solve for r.

You cannot. d is NOT independent on g, nor r.

And no one knows the density of Earth!
Sure, the compressed one is known to three figures from Cavendish experiment. But the uncompressed one...

http://books.google.ee/books?id=b6BRNJEkq2EC&pg=PA51&lpg=PA51&dq=Earth+"uncompressed+density

confidently claims 4,0

http://books.google.ee/books?id=NMFLKD48d0AC&pg=PA10&lpg=PA10&dq="uncompressed+density"+Earth

as confidently claims range 4,4 to 4,5

Thus, the compressibility of Earth is unknown by half - which should mean 25 % uncertainty in sound speed. Well, earthquake waves should be better measured.

You thus have no means of estimating the compressed density of a planet bigger than Earth. Even if Earth compressibility were known, you would have no idea what the compressibility does at pressures slightly higher than those present and observed inside Earth.
 
I fail to see how this is relevant, snorkack.
 
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  • #10
Chronos said:
I fail to see how this is relevant, snorkack.

Highly relevant.
The question:
how big can an Earth mass solid planet be?
reduces to the question
how low density can Earth mass solid planet have?
And that depends on the compressibility of stone at high pressures.
 
  • #11
snorkack said:
Highly relevant.
The question:
how big can an Earth mass solid planet be?
reduces to the question
how low density can Earth mass solid planet have?
And that depends on the compressibility of stone at high pressures.

I'm not as familiar as others are with the above math, but wouldn't you have much less compression of material in a decreased density planet?
 
  • #12
Does a hypothetical planet HAVE to be stone?
Low density solids include H2O (917 kg/m3) - NH3 (817 kg/m3) - CH4 (423 kg/m3) - methane clathrate (900 kg/m3) - ammonium hydroxide (880 kg/m3) - all of which can be abundant enough in planetary space to form an earth-mass planet. These can be taken as an estimate to the lower limit of the density of a hypothetical solid planet.
These densities ignore compressibility (currently not known for most materials at the pressures developed inside an earth-sized planet). Compression will not change the mass of the planet, only its overall density, reducing the diameter.
Under extreme pressures, ice has a density of about 1300 kg/m3 (Ice XII, 800 MPa). A spherical body with this average density would have a radius 12.3% smaller than a spherical body of the same mass and the density of regular ice.
Rock is even less compressible than water or ice.
 

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