- #1
noobphysicist
- 26
- 0
Well, what do you think? And why do you think what you think?
Click For Summary
Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around estimating the number of atoms in the thickness of a sheet of paper. Participants explore the implications of the question, the variables involved, and the nature of scientific inquiry related to such estimations.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
- Some participants suggest that the number of atoms in a sheet of paper could be estimated to be on the order of 106, based on the thickness of paper and the size of atoms.
- Others argue that the question is poorly framed due to the variability in paper composition and thickness, noting that commercial paper is made of cellulose fibers with significant space between them.
- One participant emphasizes the need for specificity in the question to provide a meaningful answer, highlighting the different weights and types of paper available.
- Another participant draws an analogy to estimating the thickness of a brick in terms of fingers, suggesting that while the question may seem vague, it can still yield a reasonable estimate.
- There is a light-hearted exchange regarding the nature of questions and answers, with references to the phrase "How long is a piece of string?" indicating a playful approach to the discussion.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express differing views on the clarity and validity of the original question, with some advocating for a more precise formulation while others defend the original inquiry's intent. No consensus is reached regarding the best approach to answering the question.
Contextual Notes
The discussion highlights limitations related to the variability in paper types and the assumptions made about atomic structure and spacing, which are not fully resolved.
- #2
Nugatory
Mentor
- 15,522
- 10,737
noobphysicist said:
Approximately the same number as there are hits to the Google query "How many atoms in a sheet of paper thickness".
Yes, really. An atom is a few angstroms across, a sheet paper is maybe a few tenths of a millimeter thick, that works out to something on the order of 106... and there are 2.3 million Google hits.
- #3
jim mcnamara
Mentor
- 4,789
- 3,852
This is not a very good question. Commercial paper is made of cellulose (polymerized simple sugars) -- which is in the form of fibers. Usually from pine. These fibers have lots of space between them - from the point of view of an atom.
Note: different atoms have different diameters: ex: Carbon 1.54 x 10^-10 m
And paper comes in different weights (thicknesses). In the US there is 20lb paper, 24lb paper etc.
Care to refine your question? We have too many variables here to give a decent answer.
Also please note: Science deals with provable facts, not what 'you think'. The 'what I think' mentality about Science is the reason the internet is full of non-science, or politically motivated disinformation. We try to limit that here.
Note: different atoms have different diameters: ex: Carbon 1.54 x 10^-10 m
And paper comes in different weights (thicknesses). In the US there is 20lb paper, 24lb paper etc.
Care to refine your question? We have too many variables here to give a decent answer.
Also please note: Science deals with provable facts, not what 'you think'. The 'what I think' mentality about Science is the reason the internet is full of non-science, or politically motivated disinformation. We try to limit that here.
- #4
vhbelvadi
- 67
- 1
jim mcnamara said:
My first thoughts too: 'paper' is just too vague. Perhaps with more specifics, the maths would be as simple as @Nugatory shows.
That said, in a watered-down point of view, I fail to see why the answer should be any more than an order or two of magnitude different from @Nugatory's estimate of one million.
- #5
nasu
Homework Helper
- 4,472
- 921
The question is "how many atoms thick is a sheet of paper".
Not how many atoms are actually aligned across the thickness of the paper.
So it seems that Nugatory's estimate makes perfect sense for the question asked.
Same as "how many fingers thick is a that brick". There are no fingers in the brick, for sure. And there are different types of fingers. But we can make an estimate.
Science is also about good estimates and order of magnitude calculations.
Not how many atoms are actually aligned across the thickness of the paper.
So it seems that Nugatory's estimate makes perfect sense for the question asked.
Same as "how many fingers thick is a that brick". There are no fingers in the brick, for sure. And there are different types of fingers. But we can make an estimate.
Science is also about good estimates and order of magnitude calculations.
- #6
sophiecentaur
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
- 30,403
- 7,470
How long is a piece of string?
- #7
nasu
Homework Helper
- 4,472
- 921
About two halves of the same piece of string.
- #8
davenn
Science Advisor
Gold Member
- 9,724
- 11,806
sophiecentaur said:
always 2 inches shorter than what you need for your task
Dave
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