How Small Can We Really Go in the Universe?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of the smallest possible entities in the universe, exploring the nature of fundamental particles like quarks and electrons, and whether there is a limit to how small things can get. Participants also touch on the implications of size in relation to the universe and singularities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that quarks are the smallest known particles, but question whether they are made of even smaller components.
  • Others argue that electrons and quarks are point particles with no volume, suggesting that nothing can be smaller than a point particle.
  • A participant expresses difficulty in accepting the idea of fundamental particles, likening them to a hierarchy of smaller components, and questions the concept of a smallest entity.
  • There is a mention of the Planck length as a theoretical limit to size, with one participant stating that nothing can be smaller than this dimension.
  • Discussion also touches on the size of the universe and whether there is a limit to its expansion, with some suggesting that there is no definitive boundary.
  • Participants discuss the concept of singularities, noting that massive objects can collapse into points of zero volume, which raises questions about the nature of size at extreme scales.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether there is a smallest particle or if smaller components exist. The discussion on the size of the universe also remains unresolved, with multiple competing views on whether there is a limit to size.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in the discussion regarding the definitions of size and the assumptions about the nature of fundamental particles. The implications of singularities and the concept of the universe's boundaries are also not fully resolved.

fakts
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Title says it all, and it has been in my head forever
How small can you go? As far as I know, the smallest known this is what makes a proton which called quarks? but still, a quark must be made of other things and those things are made of even other things and so on.. But till where? infinity?
I can't imagine there is such thing as smallest and no smaller than that, at least that's what I think.

Can someone with white beard help me get some sleep?

Thanks

If this has been discussed before please link me and I apologize
 
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fakts said:
still, a quark must be made of other things

Must?
 
Well, you get the idea
 
It's quarks all the way down.
 
an electron is a point particle - it has no volume - that's about as small as you can get. same thing with quarks - point particles, no volume. that pretty much covers everything...
 
Ok, and what makes that point a point?
 
quarks and electrons are point particles because they have no extension in space. i don't quite understand what you mean by "what makes a point a point"...
 
I'm sorry for being silly, but I'm not a physicist and I see things as an amount of smaller things, like a house is made out of bricks and bricks are made out of smaller things and so on.
So I'm having difficulties saying this is is the smallest thing and its not made out of anything smaller :confused:
I thought that maybe you can just go forever from small to smaller to smaller and never to smallest.
 
again, a point particle has zero volume - you cannot get any smaller than zero volume. there is not, and cannot be, anything smaller than a point particle. point particles are not made of anything smaller. that is why we call them fundamental particles.
 
  • #10
At some point, theorizing, I think mass becomes energy. Because what I've heard, they are the same thing.
What makes up energy? Thats what you're going to have to ask someone smarter than me.
 
  • #11
jnorman,

Thanks a lot for taking the time
Just one question, does the same thing apply for the very big? I mean is there an end to the size of the universe or multi-universe as I heard once in some doc?
There is no wall where everything stops, is there? hehe
 
  • #12
oye vey - i don't think there is a limit on big, other than the debate over closed vs open universe. OTOH, if you are talking about the physical size of an object contained within the universe, once any object gets to a certain mass, it will eventually collapse upon itself into a singularity, which once again is a point with no physical size.
 
  • #13
jnorman said:
oye vey - i don't think there is a limit on big, other than the debate over closed vs open universe. OTOH, if you are talking about the physical size of an object contained within the universe, once any object gets to a certain mass, it will eventually collapse upon itself into a singularity, which once again is a point with no physical size.

A star which has collapsed into a neutron star or a black hole has a physical size.
I don't know if this is what you meant though.
 
  • #14
fawk3s said:
A star which has collapsed into a neutron star or a black hole has a physical size.
I don't know if this is what you meant though.

I think he's talking about where all that matter condenses into a point of zero volume, i.e. the singularity.
 
  • #15
fakts said:
I'm sorry for being silly, but I'm not a physicist and I see things as an amount of smaller things, like a house is made out of bricks and bricks are made out of smaller things and so on.
So I'm having difficulties saying this is is the smallest thing and its not made out of anything smaller :confused:
I thought that maybe you can just go forever from small to smaller to smaller and never to smallest.

Plank length puts limit on the smallest dimension which is 1.616×10^-35 Meter. Nothing can be smaller than this. Plank length is 10^20 times smaller than proton diameter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planck_length
 

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