How to quantize a particle confined to the surface of a sphere?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the process of quantizing a particle confined to the surface of a sphere, specifically transitioning from classical mechanics to the Schrödinger equation. Participants explore various approaches to quantization, including the use of the Lagrangian and Hamiltonian formulations, while considering the implications of experimental validation.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the step-by-step transition from the classical Lagrangian to the Schrödinger equation, emphasizing the role of experimental validation in determining the correctness of quantization schemes.
  • Another participant mentions the "Podolsky trick" as a potentially relevant technique, referencing a specific publication.
  • Some participants argue that starting from the classical Lagrangian is unnecessary and propose that quantization can be simplified by using the total energy of a free particle confined to a sphere, promoting angular momentum to an operator to derive the Schrödinger equation.
  • Concerns are raised about the justification of a quantum Hamiltonian, questioning whether it is solely based on experimental evidence or if there are theoretical criteria that can support its formulation.
  • There is a discussion about the distinction between energy and the Hamiltonian, with some participants asserting that in the absence of external influences, the total energy equates to the Hamiltonian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity of starting from the classical Lagrangian versus using the total energy approach. There is no consensus on the justification for a quantum Hamiltonian, with some emphasizing the role of experiment while others suggest theoretical foundations may also be relevant.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the psychological aspect of preferring classical formulations and the implications of promoting classical quantities to operators in quantum mechanics. The discussion reflects ongoing uncertainties regarding the foundational aspects of quantization.

wdlang
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how to go step by step from the classical lagrangian to the Schrödinger equation?

i would like to work with the two angles.

whether the quantization is right or not is a matter of experiment, is not it? I mean, you might have many schemes of quantization, but which one is the right one is up to experiment.
 
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Do you know the Podolsky trick?

B. Podolsky, Phys. Rev., 32, 812 (1928).
 
DrDu said:
Do you know the Podolsky trick?

B. Podolsky, Phys. Rev., 32, 812 (1928).

Thanks a lot. It looks interesting.
 
Is there a specific reason you want to start from the Lagrangian (there is no need for the qualifier "classical" by the way)? The quantization for the system in the OP is much easier than that. All you have to do is take the total energy of a free particle confined to a sphere, which will involve the total angular momentum and the moment of inertia, and then promote the angular momentum to an operator. From there you can easily write down the Schrödinger equation and immediately get the general solution (which will be in terms of the spherical harmonics-the eigenstates of the angular momentum).
 
WannabeNewton said:
Is there a specific reason you want to start from the Lagrangian (there is no need for the qualifier "classical" by the way)? The quantization for the system in the OP is much easier than that. All you have to do is take the total energy of a free particle confined to a sphere, which will involve the total angular momentum and the moment of inertia, and then promote the angular momentum to an operator. From there you can easily write down the Schrödinger equation and immediately get the general solution (which will be in terms of the spherical harmonics-the eigenstates of the angular momentum).

I would feel safe if i start from the classical lagrangian or the classical hamiltonian.

It is at first a psychological issue.

I do not understand why you just mention energy, not the hamiltonian. Of course, the hamiltonian is time independent and energy is conserved.

Another fundamental issue is, what justifies a quantum hamiltonian? Only experiment can do it or we have some theoretical criterion?
 
wdlang said:
I do not understand why you just mention energy, not the hamiltonian. Of course, the hamiltonian is time independent and energy is conserved.

There are no external influences so the total energy is the Hamiltonian.

wdlang said:
Another fundamental issue is, what justifies a quantum hamiltonian? Only experiment can do it or we have some theoretical criterion?

We promote the classical Hamiltonian to an operator because state vectors are mapped into other state vectors by operators acting on state space and the Hamiltonian generates time-translations which is what we need in order to propagate the state vector in state space.
 

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