Incurring hysteresis between protons in nuclei only....

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of resonant frequencies in subatomic particles, particularly protons and quarks, and the potential for external electromagnetic (EM) signals to induce effects such as hysteresis or agitation among protons in atomic nuclei. Participants explore theoretical implications, experimental observations, and the nature of particle interactions.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that all objects, including nuclei and protons, have resonant frequencies that can be excited by EM waves.
  • Others argue that gamma decay is a known phenomenon related to nuclei but may not align with the idea of inducing hysteresis among protons.
  • There is a contention about whether quarks possess internal structure or resonant frequencies, with some asserting they do not.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the use of the term "hysteresis" in this context, suggesting a need for clarity in the discussion.
  • Some participants clarify that protons can be excited to different energy levels, while quarks do not exhibit similar properties.
  • One participant theorizes that the current understanding of the EM spectrum may not encompass all possible frequencies, suggesting there could be more to discover.
  • Another participant questions the validity of using "theory" in the context presented, emphasizing the need for precise language in scientific discourse.
  • There is a discussion about the potential for splitting nuclei with high-energy gamma rays, which is distinct from the resonant effects being considered.
  • A comparison is made between the interactions of electrons and protons, highlighting differences in their structural properties and the implications for frequency-related phenomena.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit disagreement on several key points, particularly regarding the nature of quarks, the applicability of resonant frequencies to protons, and the interpretation of hysteresis in this context. No consensus is reached on the core ideas presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the ambiguous use of terms like "hysteresis" and "theory," as well as the lack of clarity on the specific effects that external EM signals might have on protons within nuclei. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of particle structure and resonance.

davidsirmons
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I'm curious if there is any documented effect along these lines, via EM waves. Hypothetically, all objects have a resonant frequency which will cause them to vibrate when matched. As an example, stone has a resonant frequency per type, its molecules also, atoms also, and I personally theorize that nuclei, protons, or even quarks have their own resonant frequencies. When EM waves are matched to the scale of these quanta, I imagine there would be corresponding agitation from them, and perhaps even previously unobserved phenomena when achieved. Does anyone have insight or thoughts about such things?
 
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Nuclei do. That´s called gamma decay.
Protons also have resonant frequencies - they can be excited to resonances.
Quarks do not, having no internal structure.
 
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As snorkack indicated: Things need an internal structure to have oscillations. Quarks do not - at least no substructure has been found despite a lot of searches, and there are very good reasons to expect that they are indeed elementary.

There is rarely just one possible frequency, typically there is a whole spectrum of resonances.
 
Thank you all for the replies!
Gamma decay...perhaps that's not what I'd want to incur. Decay comes from the nucleus, as I understand it. Instead, I'm looking for evidence that an outside signal can be put upon nuclei containing multiple protons, and that the outside signal can incur proton/proton hysteresis or agitation/separation similar to the atom/atom phenomenon, rather than bobbling the entire nucleus around. I'm uncertain if this explains my intention more accurately, but let me know. Here's a pic...
Sbeam_Post.jpg
 

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mfb said:
As snorkack indicated: Things need an internal structure to have oscillations.

Do they? The counter-intuitive nature of that idea stops me cold. Protons are comprised of quarks, yes? Even if quarks have no physical body (does anything, really?) to affect via EM waves, they DO have a frequency, yes? Or at least a vibration. And anything that has a vibration manifests something (energy) we can observe or measure. I have this theory that the current EM spectrum as we define it is not the entirety of what the EM spectrum actually contains, just as light is not the entirety of the EM spectrum, but only a hint of what lies beyond. We may find more, but time will tell. Still, my current search is for a means of incurring hysteresis between the protons in a multi-proton atom via an outside energy.
 
Nuclear excitations can have different descriptions. Some look like individual protons and/or neutrons going to higher energy levels, some are better described as oscillations of the whole nucleus (giant resonances).
I have no idea what the picture is supposed to show.
davidsirmons said:
Do they?
Yes.
davidsirmons said:
Protons are comprised of quarks, yes?
Sure.
davidsirmons said:
Even if quarks have no physical body (does anything, really?) to affect via EM waves, they DO have a frequency, yes?
Quarks do not "have a frequency". There is no such thing. Protons do not "have a frequency" either, but (unlike quarks) they can be excited to become a different hadron via electromagnetic radiation of a suitable frequency.
davidsirmons said:
I have this theory
You do not have a theory, please don't mis-use that word.
davidsirmons said:
that the current EM spectrum as we define it is not the entirety of what the EM spectrum actually contains, just as light is not the entirety of the EM spectrum, but only a hint of what lies beyond
The EM spectrum contains all frequencies, from 0 to infinity. There cannot be anything else (electromagnetic).
davidsirmons said:
hysteresis
You keep using this word, but not in a context where it would make sense.
 
I didn't realize there is such sensitivity around the word 'theory'. My apologies.
The picture shows an emitter sending out a beam of energy, striking the nucleus of an atom with multiple protons (P), and incurring X effect (as you dislike hysteresis) on the protons, causing them to push apart from one another. I hope that's clearer...
 
You can split a nucleus into two or more pieces with gamma rays of sufficient energy. That is not a resonance or anything like that, however.
 
I have this theory that's not a theory about proton hysteresis that's not hysteresis. I'm lost. Could the question be accurately and simply reformulated?
 
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An electron is as fundamentally devoid of any internal structure as a quark, and easier to study alone.
So if you compare the reactions:
e-+γ→μ-eμ
and
p+γ→Δ+
Δ+→p+π°
Δ+→n+π+
How does the above-threshold cross-section distribution reveal that the frequency is fundamental to proton (a particle with a structure), but not to electron (a particle with no structure)?
 

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