Interaction between solid objects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the interaction between solid objects, specifically addressing whether two solid objects can truly "touch" each other at the atomic level, and how this relates to the phenomenon of friction. The scope includes conceptual and theoretical considerations regarding atomic interactions and the nature of friction.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions if it is correct to assume that no two solid objects actually touch each other, suggesting that there is always a layer of space between adjacent atoms.
  • Another participant asserts that during a collision, the electron fields of the atoms interact but the electrons themselves do not physically touch.
  • It is mentioned that the understanding of friction is incomplete, with one participant stating that it arises from electrostatic interactions at the surface level.
  • A different viewpoint emphasizes that friction can be considered a "non-contact" property, depending on the definition of contact, and discusses the role of electron fields in this interaction.
  • One participant notes that friction can be detected at distances up to about 10 nm from a surface, referencing techniques like AFM and NSOM that utilize this property.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the nature of contact between solid objects and the mechanisms of friction, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain without a clear consensus.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the complexity of atomic interactions and the definitions of contact and friction, which may depend on the context and scale of the discussion.

Allanon
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Greetings!

I've looked around in the FAQ and around the forums and couldn't find the answer to my question, so I've decided to ask. If however I did miss the answer, I apologize.

Well, it's quite elementary actually. I am wondering if it is correct to assume that no two solid objects actually touch each other, i.e. there is always a layer of space between two adjacent atoms of different objects. And if my assumption is correct, what is friction then? And what about non solid objects?

Thanks a lot.
 
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If your question involves whether or not the electrons surrounding surface atoms from two nominally colliding objects actually "touch" each other upon the event of "collision", the answer is no.
The electron fields interact and "collide", but not the actual electrons themselves. They do not collide with each other.
 
As far as I know friction is still not fully understood. However, at the macroscoping level, friction arises from the electrostatic interactions of the nuclei at the surface.

~H
 
Ah, friction! It can seem counter-intuitive that friction is a "non-contact" property. But, this would depend upon your definition of "contact"
Remember, electrons have fields, and fields interact, and this interaction can be severe enough to displace the electrons(and even their associated atoms) producing the field!
So, although the electrons may not physically "contact" each other, their fields do.

Also, consider a "flat" surface. There are electrons whirling about each surface atom(which themselves are at some distance from each other), and so one might roughly and visually characterize a "flat" surface as a string of very tiny beads. Think of the outer part of the beads being the electron "cloud" surrounding each atom.
So, there are natural valleys and troughs no matter how "smooth" one makes the surface, just much less in distance from each other.
 
Friction does indeed occur at a distance, it is detectable up to about 10 nm from a surface. AFM and NSOM systems use this 'Shear-force' to regulate distance between their probes and a sample.

Claude.
 
Understood! Thanks.
 

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