Is it just me or are safes the stupidest creation ever?

[flyingpig]

If a burglar busts into your home and sees a safe, what's the first thing he is going to do? Bust it? No, he is going to take it home and then bust it. Having a safe is like doing the burglar a favor, basically telling him that "hey I've organized and gathered all my valuables in this box, please take it away for me! You are welcome *winks*"

Why do people get safes? I am really curious. It's ironic too!

 

[chiro]

If a burglar busts into your home and sees a safe, what's the first thing he is going to do? Bust it? No, he is going to take it home and then bust it. Having a safe is like doing the burglar a favor, basically telling him that "hey I've organized and gathered all my valuables in this box, please take it away for me! You are welcome *winks*"

Why do people get safes? I am really curious. It's ironic too!

What if the safe is the size of a room, or somehow reinforced in a way that makes it very difficult to get it out?

I can see what you mean about the safes you buy at a store though.

Reminds of some criminals gone wild videos to tell you the truth.

 

[mege]

I think the common 'fireproof safe' that you're thinking of is really a modern thing and is meant to be a portable fireproof box more than a safe. But because it comes with a lock and key, many people use it as a hold for valubles. Personally, my wife and I do store some jewelry in our fireproof safe, but the key is on a string attached to it - so it is more a centralized place for our valubles/documents and used as an 'emergency box' if a fire or disaster were to hit. Now, where the box is... that's a secret ;)

I think the classic idea of a safe (ever moved a large safe? ugh) is something more permanent and unmovable. Even the several ton wheeled safes are impractical to move without some serious man power. So, I disagree that safes are poor designs - you just have to get the right safe for the right job. Obviously a 5lb box isn't a good safe against a thief, but it is good as a get-away-box or a firesafe whereas if we had to evacuate our place a large 10ton safe wouldn't really travel easilly.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

If a burglar busts into your home and sees a safe, what's the first thing he is going to do? Bust it? No, he is going to take it home and then bust it. Having a safe is like doing the burglar a favor, basically telling him that "hey I've organized and gathered all my valuables in this box, please take it away for me! You are welcome *winks*"

Why do people get safes? I am really curious. It's ironic too!

As has been pointed out, you are likely confusing fire safes with anti-burglary safes and the purpose of these safes is more about important documents than gold and money. If burglars want to steal your last 10 income tax forms and family photos I suppose they're welcome to it. Most of these safes don't even have combinations. As for burglary proof safe these are often mounted in walls or floors or at least are large enough to weigh several hundred pounds and bolted to the floor. Also, like everything else in existence, I feel that hollywood is pretty much clueless as to how easy/hard it is to break into a modern safe. I feel like it's next to impossible to do unless you take the safe with you (an even then I think the method of choice is hitting it with heavy objects or trying to blow it up). I remember cringing in the opening of the movie "dark knight" when the joker has his bank robbing team kill each other and they kill the safe cracker. When you think about it it must take an extraordinary confluence of events in order for a criminal to have an extensive knowledge of proprietary safe technology, such a person is probably extremely rare in real life, and the joker just shoots him after one job.

 

[fss]

Have you ever seen or interacted with a "real" safe, like a GSA container? You will not be carting that home with you.

 

[turbo]

I have two safes. One is a gun-safe, commonly sold at large gun-shows. The other is a Mosler fireproof file cabinet with a built-in strong-box at the top with its own combination lock and 3/4" walls and door. Each weighs nearly 1000#. If you're a burglar, and you want any valuables, you'd better bring a couple of big friends, a really heavy-duty hand-truck and a U-Haul with a ramp. My father has a fire-proof box that he keeps photos, personal documents, etc in, but when he has something that could be of value to a thief, he brings it to me for safekeeping.

If you have a strong-box that can be lugged off, it is a good target for thieves. Real safes are not such good targets, unless you keep a lot of easily-liquidatable goods around. I don't keep cash in my safes, though that would be as profitable as keeping it in savings accounts, with the crappy interest-rates that banks pay these days.

 

[Pengwuino]

and the joker just shoots him after one job.

He's the joker. What do you expect.

 

[maverick_starstrider]

He's the joker. What do you expect.

I also have a similar reaction whenever a movie has a gun fight in a museum. I've never seen a movie where a moment was taken to think about what as really being lost as these guys traded bullets like baseball cards.

 

[alt]

If a burglar busts into your home and sees a safe, what's the first thing he is going to do? Bust it? No, he is going to take it home and then bust it. Having a safe is like doing the burglar a favor, basically telling him that "hey I've organized and gathered all my valuables in this box, please take it away for me! You are welcome *winks*"

Why do people get safes? I am really curious. It's ironic too!

Asked ..
Why do people get safes?

Answered ..
Having a safe is like doing the burglar a favor, basically telling him that "hey I've organized and gathered all my valuables in this box, please take it away for me! You are welcome

*winks*"

 

[DaveC426913]

(Learned from my days in security)
No security system in the world is designed to stop someone breaking in. All security systems are designed to either discourage someone from breaking in in the first place, or if not, slow them down long enough for people to show up.

Opportunistic burglars do not waltz off from your home with a 50lb. safe under their arm. They will grab what they can get and hightail it out of there. A 50lb. safe under the arm (or in their getaway vehicle) is a dead giveaway if they are stopped. You take the valuables, hide them, and then disappear with no possible way to tie you back to the scene of the crime. That's critical. The entire time the (dumb) burglar is in possession of the safe, he is a sitting duck for getting nabbed.



More organized thefts, such as with trucks, require a more advanced security system that simply making something awkward to move.

 

[zoobyshoe]

When you think about it it must take an extraordinary confluence of events in order for a criminal to have an extensive knowledge of proprietary safe technology, such a person is probably extremely rare in real life, and the joker just shoots him after one job.

You must have missed this important piece of dialog:

Alfred Pennyworth: A long time ago, I was in Burma, my friends and I were working for the local government. They were trying to buy the loyalty of tribal leaders by bribing them with precious stones. But their caravans were being raided in a forest north of Rangoon by a bandit. So we went looking for the stones. But in six months, we never found anyone who traded with him. One day I saw a child playing with a ruby the size of a tangerine. The bandit had been throwing them away.

Bruce Wayne: Then why steal them?

Alfred Pennyworth: Because he thought it was good sport. Because some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0468569/quotes

 

[Ms Music]

Considering I just watched my neighbors house burn to the ground, I find safes quite valuable. In fact, I am wondering if I should add more to my safe. These kids still have their cars still sitting in the driveway because their keys were inside the house. So along with birth certificates, passports, social security cards, legal documents, and some cash, I am now thinking of adding spare keys, expired drivers licenses, and old car license registrations. And putting the spare safe key outside of the house!

Something else I am now wondering might be wise to put in a safe is ammunition. I was laying in bed wondering what all this odd gunfire noise was, when my daughter ran out of her bedroom yelling the neighbors house was on fire. A previous renter had left a little bit of ammo, and the fire exploded all of it.

 

[DaveC426913]

Something else I am now wondering might be wise to put in a safe is ammunition. I was laying in bed wondering what all this odd gunfire noise was, when my daughter ran out of her bedroom yelling the neighbors house was on fire. A previous renter had left a little bit of ammo, and the fire exploded all of it.

Who has ammunition just lying around? Why would one even have ammunition without also having a gun safe?

Unless, I suppose, you live out in the country.

 

[turbo]

Considering I just watched my neighbors house burn to the ground, I find safes quite valuable. In fact, I am wondering if I should add more to my safe. These kids still have their cars still sitting in the driveway because their keys were inside the house. So along with birth certificates, passports, social security cards, legal documents, and some cash, I am now thinking of adding spare keys, expired drivers licenses, and old car license registrations. And putting the spare safe key outside of the house!

All good suggestions. Those things are all in my big fire-proof Mosler, as well as years and years worth of tax returns with supporting documentation, insurance policies, vehicle title papers, wills, etc. If this place ever burns down, I'll have to get a friend with a big excavator to drop by and retrieve the safe from the cellar-hole for me so I can start piecing things back together.

I used to rent safe-deposit boxes years back, but found myself having to rent larger (and more expensive, of course) boxes at my bank until my friend gave me this big safe. He had his house on the market, and didn't want to pay anybody to move it to PA, so it was mine just for the cost of moving it to my house. I had to hire a mover who was bonded and could move massive stuff like grand pianos without damaging floors and walls. It wasn't cheap, but it was well worth it.

Each of my safes has a key, and both keys stay with me all the time. The spares are stored with a trusted friend. He also has combinations for all three of the locks, so if I die suddenly, he can help my wife get into the safes and retrieve stuff.

 

[zoobyshoe]

In a hot fire, wouldn't a safe just become a charcoal oven? Paper wouldn't burn per se, but it would be effectively destroyed, no?

 

[turbo]

In a hot fire, wouldn't a safe just become a charcoal oven? Paper wouldn't burn per se, but it would be effectively destroyed, no?

"Fire-proof" safes aren't 100% protection in a very hot fire of long duration, but LOTS better than nothing. Mine is rated for 1700deg F for one hour, and that's plenty of protection. If my house was burning down, I'd ask the fire-fighters to play the hoses on the garage (where the safe is located) so nothing would get destroyed. That section of the foundation has a ground-level door on the back side that is unsecured, so water wouldn't accumulate in there and soak the contents, either.

 

[zoobyshoe]

"Fire-proof" safes aren't 100% protection in a very hot fire of long duration, but LOTS better than nothing. Mine is rated for 1700deg F for one hour, and that's plenty of protection. If my house was burning down, I'd ask the fire-fighters to play the hoses on the garage (where the safe is located) so nothing would get destroyed. That section of the foundation has a ground-level door on the back side that is unsecured, so water wouldn't accumulate in there and soak the contents, either.

Here in Southern Ca. houses generally burn down due to huge wildfires. Occupants are evacuated when the fire gets within a certain distance of a neighborhood. (Fires get into suburbs via canyons that are full of dry brush. My sister in Santa Barbara was evacuated last year and some of her neighbors lost their houses.) Except for people who are out of town when such fires strike, I sure everyone brought what would be kept in their safes with them when they were evacuated. In any event, no one would be permitted near their house to tell firefighters where to direct the hose.

I'm thinking the usefulness of fire safes is limited to situations where the fire gets contained before the house burns down. I don't know any statistics but it would seem that fires that start when someone is home probably get put out the fastest, and those that start when a place is vacant end up doing the most damage.

 

[turbo]

From what I have read, typical house-fire temperatures can get to 1100 deg F, so my safe should be fine. 1700 deg rating for an hour is pretty good document-protection.

 

[zoobyshoe]

From what I have read, typical house-fire temperatures can get to 1100 deg F, so my safe should be fine. 1700 deg rating for an hour is pretty good document-protection.

My question would be, are they guaranteeing the safe will still operate after an hour at that temp or are they actually guaranteeing the interior temperature of the safe will not rise to charcoalizing, or spontaneous combustion temperatures? You're surely better off with it than without it, but, having read a lot about charcoal making, going back to ancient times, my first thought about a "fire safe" was "Oh. Charcoal kiln." There have got to be some sort of special materials included to prevent that, and even those have limits.

 

[SpringCreek]

My concern would be that upon seeing a large safe a burglar would naturally conclude that it contains valuables/guns. So rather than just grabbing the computer and TV and then running, he might wake you up and force you to open the safe. And then maybe something worse would follow.

Nevertheless, I think you're probably better off having a safe.

The best reason for a gun safe is to prevent children from having access to the guns.

 

[turbo]

My question would be, are they guaranteeing the safe will still operate after an hour at that temp or are they actually guaranteeing the interior temperature of the safe will not rise to charcoalizing, or spontaneous combustion temperatures? You're surely better off with it than without it, but, having read a lot about charcoal making, going back to ancient times, my first thought about a "fire safe" was "Oh. Charcoal kiln." There have got to be some sort of special materials included to prevent that, and even those have limits.

The standard is that the internal temperature of the safe will not exceed 350 deg F when exposed to external temperatures of 1700 deg for an hour. Paper chars starting at 405 deg, so I'm pretty comfortable.

You should have some kind of fire-rated storage box for your artwork. It would be a shame to lose that!

 

[zoobyshoe]

The standard is that the internal temperature of the safe will not exceed 350 deg F when exposed to external temperatures of 1700 deg for an hour. Paper chars starting at 405 deg, so I'm pretty comfortable.

You should have some kind of fire-rated storage box for your artwork. It would be a shame to lose that!

It would be, but I'm convinced the best protection would be to have it all sold and scattered all around in private collections, avoiding the eggs-in-one basket vulnerability. Actually had a scare with a common roof leak a couple months ago, that almost got some drawings and my lap top as well. I also outright ruined a really nice sketch just by carrying it around with me in my backpack too long. There's a certain small amount of rubbing and smearing, even when they're tucked in a pad. I noticed to my horror one day it had been rubbed and smeared beyond repair. But, of course, I'd been carrying it around for months that way.

 

[DaveC426913]

My concern would be that upon seeing a large safe a burglar would naturally conclude that it contains valuables/guns. So rather than just grabbing the computer and TV and then running, he might wake you up and force you to open the safe. And then maybe something worse would follow.

If I were a betting man, I would bet a lot of money that this virtualy never happens. Smash & grab thieves do not go waking up the family.

The best reason for a gun safe is to prevent children from having access to the guns.

Seems to me if one were concerned about keeping guns away from children the better thing to do would be to not have guns.

 

[mege]

Seems to me if one were concerned about keeping guns away from children the better thing to do would be to not have guns.

Most gun safes are no more than glorified school lockers with a build in rack. That said, it still takes responsibility - putting the gun safe by your front door, in vision when ever the door is opened isn't a smart thing. Personally, my gun safe is behind clothes in my closet. You have to know it's there to start. The key isn't far off, and I don't have kids, but it keeps them out of any casual contact.

I think the general trend for some in this thread is they think safes, of various capacities, are a silver bullet protection. Just like any safety device, they're there to mitigate risk, not eliminate it. I'd wager that a properly used safe is more effective at protecting valubles/dangerous items in their respective capacities than a seatbelt and airbag protecting passenger safety in a car. Again, it's all about mitigating risk - just because you buckle up doesn't mean a 70mph head on crash isn't going to kill you.

 

[mege]

http://xkcd.com/916/

relevant new xkcd.

 

[DaveC426913]

For the record, when I saw this thread, my first thought was that he thought condoms were the stupidest creation ever.

 

[zoobyshoe]

For the record, when I saw this thread, my first thought was that he thought condoms were the stupidest creation ever.

Hm. Is "safe" some Canadian slang term for condom?

 

[DaveC426913]

Hm. Is "safe" some Canadian slang term for condom?

I had never heard it before some guy mentioned it about 20 years ago. It was so strange it stuck with me, but I assumed other people knew it. I don't think I've heard anyone else use that term since.