Is it possible to find this number without brute force?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of counting integer polynomials under specific restrictions, particularly focusing on the conditions for coefficients and the variable x. Participants explore whether there are non-brute force methods to determine the total number of such polynomials that satisfy a given polynomial equation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the problem may be approached by considering polynomials with integer roots, which could allow for factoring the polynomial and potentially reduce the complexity of counting.
  • Another participant proposes the idea of visualizing the problem in a 6D space, where the polynomial is represented as a surface, and discusses the implications of this higher-dimensional topology on finding solutions.
  • Concerns are raised about double counting solutions, particularly when roots may repeat, and how this could affect the counting process.
  • Participants discuss the possibility of using factored forms of polynomials, although it is noted that not all integer polynomials can be factored in a straightforward manner.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the best approach to the problem, with some advocating for the use of integer roots and factoring, while others emphasize the complexity of counting permutations and the potential for double counting. No consensus is reached on a definitive method or solution.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in their approaches, including the complexity of avoiding double counting and the challenges posed by the nature of integer polynomials and their roots.

julianwitkowski
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Sorry if this is the wrong thread, seems appropriate but I'm kind of just learning math. This started as a thought experiment to learn some new technique. I've been trying to compute the total number of integer polynomials under certain restrictions: such that all coefficients, x, and the constant term are all among the variables within the count.

I was told that this can only be done by brute force/enumeration, but I feel like there must be a way otherwise.

Basically all polynomials must suit the following restrictions:

± ax³ ± bx² ± cx ± d = 0

Such That...

1 ≤ a ≤ 100 ∈ ℤ [a ≠ 0 since it's a 3rd degree]
0 ≤ b ≤ 100 ∈ ℤ
0 ≤ c ≤ 100 ∈ ℤ
0 ≤ d ≤ 100 ∈ ℤ
0 ≤ x ≤ 100 ∈ ℤ

1(1)³ + 1(1)² - 1(1) - 1 = 0 ... is an example that would be counted...

2(1)³ + 2(1)² - 2(1) - 1 = 0 ... is not an example because... 2(1)³ + 2(1)² - 2(1) - 1 = 1
___________________________________

Could I create a 6D space for ax³ + bx² + cx + d = n and focus on the root for n between -100 and 100 ?
___________________________________

Do you have any way I could approach this problem?
 
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Are you looking for all polynomial functions that have an integer root? It might be possible to use those roots as starting point - they allow to factor the polynomial, All polynomials ##(Ax^2+Bx+C)(x-x_0)## have an integer root at x0, and figuring out how many there are that satisfy the other conditions could be faster than brute force. Avoiding double counting might be complicated.

Without loss of generality, you can assume that the first summand is positive. Negative x are not allowed? That would make the problem more symmetric.
 
mfb said:
Are you looking for all polynomial functions that have an integer root?

Not necessarily, more so the permutations where all coefficients, the x variable, and constant term are considered and all some combination between -100 and 100 such that, the combination satisfies the RS to equal 0.

I'm trying to imagine a 6D surface: ax³ + bx² + cx + d = y ... It would be like a lower dimensional, x,y,z surface exhibiting all of the possibilities for that function, but just in a higher dimensional topology. I've heard in theory it should still work the same, so I was hoping the y intercepts could be sorted because that's where all of my answers are.

I've also been considering factored form as well, but not all integer polys can be factored and they won't neccesary factor all the same way so it's much harder to consider I think.
 
julianwitkowski said:
Not necessarily, more so the permutations where all coefficients, the x variable, and constant term are considered and all some combination between -100 and 100 such that, the combination satisfies the RS to equal 0.
What about x^3-4x^2+5x-2?
This has the solutions x=1 and x=2. If that is counted twice, then the approach I described in post 2 should work well because you don't have to care about double-counting.

All polynomials with integer roots can be factored that way. The second part (the quadratic one) might not have real factors - so what?
 
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mfb said:
What about x^3-4x^2+5x-2?
This has the solutions x=1 and x=2. If that is counted twice, then the approach I described in post 2 should work well because you don't have to care about double-counting.

All polynomials with integer roots can be factored that way. The second part (the quadratic one) might not have real factors - so what?

Yes, it would be counted twice. All root possibilities for any given polynomial would be a unique combination, and there is no rule saying that number can't repeat or anything either.

Thanks, I'm going to think about this and see what I come up with.
 

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