Is It Still the Same Object After Atomic Reconstruction?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the philosophical and scientific implications of atomic reconstruction of objects, specifically questioning whether an object remains the same after being disassembled at the atomic level and then reassembled. The conversation touches on concepts of identity, continuity, and the nature of objects in both theoretical and practical contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Philosophical debate
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a scenario involving a machine that can record atomic positions and reconstruct objects, questioning if the reassembled object is still the same as the original.
  • Another participant references the Ship of Theseus and Sorites paradox to illustrate the philosophical complexities of identity over time and change.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that the scientific feasibility of such atomic reconstruction is uncertain, citing the no-cloning theorem as a rigorous impossibility result.
  • One participant expresses confusion and introduces the analogy of a drop of water in the sea, questioning whether it still exists after being mixed with the ocean.
  • Another participant elaborates on the water analogy, noting that while the molecules remain, the specific configuration cannot be replicated, raising questions about identity and continuity.
  • A participant reiterates the atomic reconstruction scenario and compares it to digital files, suggesting that the distinction between original and copy may inform the understanding of object identity.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the topic, with no consensus reached. Some focus on philosophical implications, while others emphasize scientific limitations, indicating a complex interplay of ideas without a definitive resolution.

Contextual Notes

The discussion involves assumptions about the nature of identity, the implications of perfect duplication, and the limitations of current scientific understanding regarding atomic reconstruction. These factors contribute to the complexity of the questions raised.

enricfemi
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if one day we have a machine which can records every atoms' position and kind,and breake down the object into atoms,then rebuild the object use the record before.

is the object after such process still the same object before it?

if we have a clock,and we tear down it. is it still a clock? of course not. but if it is broken,and we just change one part of it, is it the same clock? if it is ,which part should we change ,then it's not?
 
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Scientifically, it is not clear that this well ever be possible. There is already one rigorous impossibility result in this area:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_cloning_theorem

Philosophically, the ability to make perfect copies would be a bedrock shift in our understanding of what it means for two things to be the same.

Right now it maybe silly to say:

"I know this is the same cup I used yesterday."

But in this future with perfect duplication this could be bonafide knowledge, since when pressed for evidence you could say:

"After all, I am sure it has never been recorded by a duplicate machine."

In other words, we will deal with this issue as it arises; it is a non-problem.
 
thanks,but i still confused.
to make this thing more clearly, i decided to use another example:
suppose a drop of water, i drop it to sea, is it still exist?
 
enricfemi said:
thanks,but i still confused.
to make this thing more clearly, i decided to use another example:
suppose a drop of water, i drop it to sea, is it still exist?

The water molecules and whatever else was in the water are still there, but there is a very small change you will ever be able to poor out that same configuration of water and other molecules out of the ocean ever before.
However, please consider that molecules are supposed to be identical, so that dramatically increases your chances, just that it needs to have the same number of each molecule.
 
enricfemi said:
if one day we have a machine which can records every atoms' position and kind,and breake down the object into atoms,then rebuild the object use the record before.

is the object after such process still the same object before it?
When the atmoic world is as finely-definable as the digital world, we will have that.

Question: is a copy of a file in your computer distinguishable from its original? The answer to this question will answer your real-world question.
 

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