Is Pahrump's New Ordinance on Flags and Language Legal?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on the legality and implications of a new ordinance in Pahrump, Nevada, which declares English the official language, restricts the display of foreign flags, and denies town benefits to illegal immigrants. Participants explore the ordinance's alignment with American values, its enforceability, and the cultural implications of such measures.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the ordinance contradicts the Bill of Rights and is unenforceable, suggesting that it reflects a misunderstanding of American values.
  • Others express frustration over the ordinance, questioning how restricting immigrant rights and enforcing English language use aligns with the foundational principles of freedom in America.
  • A participant notes that the ordinance may have been a reaction to Hispanic demonstrators and their display of Mexican flags, indicating a political motivation behind the measure.
  • There is a discussion about flag etiquette, with some asserting that the American flag should be displayed more prominently than foreign flags, while others challenge the legality and appropriateness of codifying such traditions into law.
  • Some participants highlight inconsistencies in the application of flag etiquette, referencing specific rules about flag display that may not be universally understood or followed.
  • A participant raises concerns about the impact of "English-only" rules on the rights of non-English speaking immigrants, suggesting that such measures could hinder their access to information about their rights.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views, with no consensus on the legality or appropriateness of the ordinance. Disagreements exist regarding the implications of the ordinance for immigrant rights and the interpretation of flag etiquette.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note that the ordinance may be based on misunderstandings of flag etiquette and constitutional rights, while others point out that the enforcement of such measures may vary in practice.

Rach3
PAHRUMP, Nev. - A town board in southern Nevada has adopted an ordinance declaring English the official language, restricting the display of foreign flags and denying town benefits to illegal immigrants.

A 3-2 Town Board vote drew a standing ovation and cheers late Tuesday from many of the 250 people at the meeting.

Town Manager David Richards called the ordinance a statement that "everyone should speak English, and if you are going to move here then you ought to respect the American flag and fly it in prominence."
...
Town business is already conducted in English and the town has no real "benefits" to take away because public aid is administered by the state or the county, officials said. The flag measure requires an American flag to be displayed at least as prominently as a foreign flag.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061115/ap_on_re_us/english_only

Totally unenforcable, of course - it obviously contradicts the Bill of Rights. Yet certain public officals have apparently never read that document - to think they call themselves Americans. *scoffs*

Someone please do something about Tom Jefferson over there - he's making quite a ruckus in his grave.
 
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"Foreign" flags? What? You mean there are other countries?:confused:

This is the sort of thing that angers me so much about these sorts of people. They have so much national pride...but what exactly is there to be proud of in America if not our freedom? (read that as sarcastic, or not, or both) America was built on the idea of freedom for everyone (er...except slaves, women, American Indians, Mexicans, Arabs, and non-Christians in general...but let's overlook that for the moment)...which is what makes it "special," presumably. So...how exactly does taking away immigrant's rights, and forcing people to fly the American flag above all others and speak English celebrate this?
 
America was built on the idea of freedom for everyone (er...except slaves, women, American Indians, Mexicans, Arabs, and non-Christians in general...but let's overlook that for the moment)...which is what makes it "special," presumably
Now that is a white elephant one cannot ignore :biggrin:
 
Darn right, we want to restrict their speech! (Nothin' wrong with that, is there?)

Supporters said they passed the measure to hit back at Hispanic demonstrators who carried Mexican flags when they marched in U.S. cities earlier this year to press for rights for 10 million to 12 million illegal immigrants living in the shadows.

"All of the illegal alien protesters are waving Mexican flags, and we just got tired of it," town board clerk Paul Willis told Reuters in a telephone interview.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20061116/us_nm/usa_immigration_flags_dc
 
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In flag etiquette, the American flag should, at the very least, be at a position of equal prominence as another flag. These flag laws are correct in terms of proper etiquette, but the fact that traditions are being turned into law may be the real issue.
 
I think you misunderstood: the tradition is that when flown with other flags the American flag must be higher. This law says that foreign flags can only be flown in the presence of (and subbordinate to) American flags.

It is unConstitutional at face value and won't stand a chance when challenged.
 
I'd bet a good amount of $, that if you drove through this town, you'd see violations of proper flag etiquette all over the place.
 
I think you misunderstood: the tradition is that when flown with other flags the American flag must be higher. This law says that foreign flags can only be flown in the presence of (and subbordinate to) American flags.
Actually Russ... A church pennant can be flown above the Flag in the USA, when on 1 pole. Also it is not necessary to have the USA Flag higher or bigger than other flags that are flown on separate poles. But it should be in the middle.
http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

In the UK there are different rules
 
... Town Manager David Richards called the ordinance a statement that "everyone should speak English and if you are going to move here then you ought to respect the American flag and fly it in prominence."

I wonder if he speaks Cherokee?
 
  • #10
HAAAAH NICE! :cool:
 
  • #11
Pahrump? That's Art Bell's town. Used to be, anyways. I thought they had an entirely different "illegal alien" problem there.

*imagines little grey guys with leaf blowers*
 
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  • #12
They should ban all flags, problem solved.
 
  • #13
Anttech said:
Actually Russ... A church pennant can be flown above the Flag in the USA, when on 1 pole. http://www.usflag.org/flagetiquette.html

In the UK there are different rules
I forgot about the church penant, but it really isn't relevant here. By "other flags" I was really only talking about political flags.
Also it is not necessary to have the USA Flag higher or bigger than other flags that are flown on separate poles. But it should be in the middle.
Reread that part of your link... :wink:
 
  • #14
flag ordinance

Americans keep bemoaning illegal immigrants; and we keep hiring them.

Control of immigration is every sovereign nation's right, but the fact that whole sectors
of the economy depend on illegals makes our indignation against these people rather
peculiar.

I doubt that most proponants of "English-only" rules are conspiring to keep our supply of cheap labor uninformed about their rights. That doesn't mean that the institution of such rules would not hinder literate monolingual Spanish speakers from learning about the rights that even illegal immigrants have under American law.

With regard to the rules about the flag: Civics classes had vanished from the schools by the time I was old enough to take them. Maybe they shouldn't have.

Lren
 
  • #15
russ_watters said:
Reread that part of your link... :wink:

I did, :)

When flown with flags of states, communities, or societies on separate flag poles which are of the same height and in a straight line, the flag of the United States is always placed in the position of honor - to its own right.
..The other flags may be smaller but none may be larger.
..No other flag ever should be placed above it.
..The flag of the United States is always the first flag raised and the last to be lowered.

I suppose it doesn't stipulate that the American Flag must be in the middle. In the UK, because we are a amalgamation of 2 kingdoms, 1 principality and a Provence, we have slightly different rules... The middle bit I got from there :)
 

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