Is the UK Facing a Crisis in Astronomy Funding?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the current funding crisis in astronomy and fundamental physics in the UK, as highlighted by recent sentiments expressed at the Royal Astronomical Society meeting. Participants explore the implications of this funding situation for graduate students and the broader scientific community.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express concern that the funding crisis may deter prospective graduate students from pursuing physics in the UK.
  • There are claims that funding for all sciences in the UK is similarly affected, with significant losses reported for both the particle physics and astronomy research council and the engineering and physical sciences council.
  • Participants note that while studentships and postdoc positions are still available, they may be limited to projects that have not faced funding cuts.
  • One participant recounts a critical response from John Womersley regarding the motivations for pursuing a career in science, suggesting that financial concerns should not be a primary driver.
  • There is a discussion about the changing landscape of career paths, with some participants reflecting on their own experiences in shifting away from traditional research roles to more stable employment opportunities.
  • Concerns are raised about the oversaturation of PhD candidates in the job market, with some arguing that many graduates end up in non-research jobs.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the implications of the funding crisis, with multiple competing views on the motivations for pursuing graduate studies and the state of the job market for PhD holders. Some agree that financial considerations should not dominate the decision to enter graduate school, while others emphasize the importance of job security and market conditions.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge that the current funding climate may not accurately predict future job prospects for graduates, highlighting the uncertainty surrounding the long-term implications of the funding crisis.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to prospective graduate students in physics and astronomy, current students considering their career paths, and professionals in the scientific community concerned about funding and job market trends.

wolram
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/7338666.stm

Nicholas Owen, from the solar theory group at St Andrews University, summed up the mood last week of astronomers gathered in Belfast for the annual meeting of the Royal Astronomical Society.

Some, especially the younger ones, were resigned to having to get out of astronomy altogether.

Astronomy and fundamental physics in the UK are in the midst of their worst funding crisis for decades.
 
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So that probably means I shouldn't try to go to Grad school for physics in the UK, huh?
 
How is funding for the other sciences there? In the US, the funding situation is quite miserable for sciences in general, and especially for the biomedical sciences.

Though, when I was in grad school, we were all reminded that having a Ph.D. would certainly make us employable, but it should be realistically viewed that it's a bonus if one is employed in the field one chooses early on rather than an expectation. Some sectors are better than others at different times, but if you have a Ph.D., you'll still find a job somewhere. I've already shifted career paths a few times, and am in the process of taking another turn...though this time I think I'm doubling back a bit more to focus on education, which I've always enjoyed but didn't think was very stable or well-paid compared to research. Times have changed, and now the thing I enjoy most is the most secure path for me and also pays well without the killer hours of research. :biggrin: It's just a matter of having the sense to realize you're beating your head against the wall in one direction and time to turn around and find another direction, and I think I've finally wound my path around to get to the other side of the wall. :wink: Patience and persistence and not being afraid to head in new directions is what you need to learn during grad school training, and what will ensure you're always employed regardless of the whims of government funding.
 
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Moonbear said:
How is funding for the other sciences there?

It's pretty much the same for all sciences. The research council for particle physics and astronomy has a huge loss of money, but the engineering and physical sciences council has an even huger loss of money.

Still, though, studentships and postdoc positions are fine, so long as you're not working on one of the projects whose funding has been cut. Of course, the safest bet is to be a theorist: they're not going to make much money back by reclaiming the tools we need to work!
 
cristo said:
It's pretty much the same for all sciences. The research council for particle physics and astronomy has a huge loss of money, but the engineering and physical sciences council has an even huger loss of money.

Still, though, studentships and postdoc positions are fine, so long as you're not working on one of the projects whose funding has been cut. Of course, the safest bet is to be a theorist: they're not going to make much money back by reclaiming the tools we need to work!

Perhaps Canada and Australia still have jobs. :rolleyes:
 
So what of Nicholas Owen, the student who's wondering if he should carry on?

The answer he got, from John Womersley, director of science programmes at the STFC, was criticised as patronising: "If you cared about money you wouldn't be a scientist at all would you," he told the students in the hall.

"You may feel it's a bigger gamble than you want to make, knowing what you do about future funding.

I suppose Womersley is safe, i bet Owen thinks little of him now.
 
wolram said:
So what of Nicholas Owen, the student who's wondering if he should carry on?

The answer he got, from John Womersley, director of science programmes at the STFC, was criticised as patronising: "If you cared about money you wouldn't be a scientist at all would you," he told the students in the hall.

"You may feel it's a bigger gamble than you want to make, knowing what you do about future funding.

I suppose Womersley is safe, i bet Owen thinks little of him now.

I tend to agree. Your motivation for grad school shouldn't just be the money...if it is, you're going to have a miserable time of it. Not that one really wants to go into something that pays nothing either, but grad school takes so long to complete that the current funding climate is almost never a good predictor of what it's going to be like when you get out.
 
Perhaps there is also this balance bit. So you have to keep a society running, for that you need farmers, traders, manufacturers, constructor, etc. In my fathers time, if you were not going to be farmer, you'd go for builder or factory worker. Nowadays just about everybody goes for the PhD.
 
Moonbear said:
I tend to agree. Your motivation for grad school shouldn't just be the money...if it is, you're going to have a miserable time of it. Not that one really wants to go into something that pays nothing either, but grad school takes so long to complete that the current funding climate is almost never a good predictor of what it's going to be like when you get out.
I agree-- one doesn't enter grad school for the money! I just hope the job market has improved in 3 years or so!
Andre said:
Perhaps there is also this balance bit. So you have to keep a society running, for that you need farmers, traders, manufacturers, constructor, etc. In my fathers time, if you were not going to be farmer, you'd go for builder or factory worker. Nowadays just about everybody goes for the PhD.

That's a huge over-exaggeration! Of the people in my year at university, about 5% at most went on to do PhDs in various fields. The majority went into real jobs (banks, accountants, etc etc)
 

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