- 7,643
- 1,602
I, too, feel that the fact that Lorentz boosts have different actions under the different transformation laws is the key to what's happening.
Regards,
George
Regards,
George
vanesch said:Ok, I'm stuck with equation (13). Of course I can work out the coefficients (using the previously calculated expressions), but then you end up with a funny system of "differential equations" which do not make sense. I didn't realize this immediately, but equation 13 does not, after all seem to be an equation of a world line, or curve or what so ever. A normal equation of a world line would have COORDINATES as functions of lambda (so that the coefficients, expressed in coordinates, become also functions of the unknowns and that we have a genuine set of differential equations of coordinates as a function of lambda). Its solution would then give you the 4 unknowns as a function of lambda, and hence, trace out a world line on the manifold. But apparently the x-underscore quantities are NOT coordinates. Then equation (13) doesn't make much sense to me as defining a world line, and doesn't even make much sense as an equation. How do the coefficients now depend on the unknowns x-underscore ?
Is it possible to write down a genuine equation of a world line so that we can KNOW what we are talking about all the time ?
Or do we have to bluntly substitute the derivatives of x-underscore to lambda, by the expression given in the text underneath it ? But how does the second derivative act upon this ?
hossi said:I can't avoid being flattered by your attention. Or is it vengeance of the GR-defenders?
Second, the question about Eq (13) should be answered in the three points listed directly below this equation.
Alternatively, you can rewrite the equation into an equation for the tangential vector (this is in the first paper, and I didn't repeat it in the 2nd, maybe I should have). The x-underscores are coordinates - as explained in the footnote on this side. The underscore is just a notation to remind you that you are currently investigating the world-line of an a-grav. particle. Well, you can drop the underscore if you just keep in mind what question you are currently investigating. There are no space-time coordinates that belong to the underlined g. The basis in the underlined TM's is not a basis of partial derivatives of any kind.
Third, I unfortunately can't check on the index or its permutations right now but will do so asap. (Have no mathematica license here). Do we have the same definition of angles in the metric (I sometimes mix up phi and theta).
vanesch said:Finally, I applied the same calculation sheet to a Rindler coordinate system. It is described on p 173 of MTW, but the (T,X,Y,Z) coordinate system is the coordinate system of an observer which is accelerated in the PLUS Z direction wrt an inertial frame, in flat space with an acceleration + GG.
So, if the "a-geodesics" are world lines, the calculation in this coordinate system should give me an acceleration of - GG (as does a normal geodesic), because in flat space, a-geodesics are the same as normal geodesics.
Well, at the end of the calculation, I find an acceleration IN THE PLUS Z DIRECTION.
So this clearly shows that the "a-geodesic" is dependent on the frame in which it is worked out, as I was claiming all along.
It is the famous particle that "accelerates away" from you when you accelerate towards it, and the "a-geodesics" are not geometrical world lines.
Unless there's a mistake in the calculation of course...
Your Honor, I rest my case.
hossi said:Hi vanesh,
could you please explain what exactly you have done? I don't have MTW here, so I can not look up the reference. If you could refer to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rindler_coordinates"
that would be more useful. You have taken Rindler coordinates in flat space. And computed a geodesic in this space? And then you have computed the anti-geodesic? I don't really get what acceleration you are talking about. Both have no acceleration. The Rindler coordinates belong to an observer that is accelerated but that is not a geodesic. You know all that, just that from your description it is not clear to me what you actually have computed.
B.
vanesch said:The transformation is given by:
[tex]x^0 = (1/g + \xi^1) sinh(g \xi^0)[/tex]
[tex]x^1 = (1/g + \xi^1) cosh(g \xi^0)[/tex]
[tex]x^2 = \xi^2[/tex]
[tex]x^3 = \xi^3[/tex]
vanesch said:Yes, but I don't know what to do with the derivative to lambda in the first term. Do I FIRST substitute d (x-underscore)^(alpha-underscore)/d lambda by the (inverse of) the last equation on p 7 and THEN I apply the derivative to lambda, or vice versa ?
Because both are of course not equivalent: the derivative to lambda will act upon the elements in the tau matrix of course in the first case and not in the second.
hossi said:Hi vanesh,
I am sorry cause I can't use the mathematica stuff. I can open the files but can't execute them. So I am poking around in the dark. I read in your text (hossi4a) So, as said, we'll need the "covariant derivative" of the second form of tau. This flips the signs of the two terms (at least if I understood how things are done). Does this refer to Eqs (18) and (19) of the first paper? And if so, why do you change both signs?
hossi said:Hi vanesh,
I am sorry cause I can't use the mathematica stuff. I can open the files but can't execute them.