Is There a Limit to How Much Light Can Be Stretched Out in a Black Hole?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of light in the context of black holes, specifically addressing whether there is a limit to how much light can be stretched or redshifted as it falls into a black hole. Participants explore concepts related to gravitational effects on light, redshift, blueshift, and the implications of these phenomena for detection and understanding of light near black holes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that light falling into a black hole experiences infinite stretching of its wavelength, leading to redshift.
  • Others argue that light can also blueshift as it falls into a black hole, depending on the observer's position and gravitational potential.
  • One participant asserts that there is no limit to how much a light wave can be stretched or compressed.
  • Another participant notes that light that falls into a black hole cannot escape beyond the event horizon, implying it cannot be detected.
  • Some participants discuss the perspective of distant observers versus those near the event horizon, highlighting the complexities of redshift and blueshift in different gravitational contexts.
  • A later reply mentions that while theoretically light can have any wavelength, practical limits exist based on the observable universe's size.
  • One participant suggests that a misunderstanding of rates of change and limits may be affecting the discussion, referencing calculus as a necessary tool for comprehension.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views on the behavior of light near black holes, particularly regarding redshift and blueshift. The discussion remains unresolved with no consensus on the limits of light stretching or the implications for detection.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations in understanding the effects of gravity on light, particularly regarding the definitions of redshift and blueshift, and the implications of the event horizon. The discussion also reflects varying interpretations of gravitational wells and their influence on light.

Borrah Campbell
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The expansion of our universe stretches out light causing the phenomenon known as "redshift."

When light falls into a black hole... Its wavelength gets stretched out infinitely? Light with a flat wavelength? Or is there some limit to how much a wave of light can be stretched out... There's a limit to how fast light can move... so why not a limit on redshift... and would a black hole's gravity be enough to reach it?

If so, what would this light look like? Could we even detect it? Could black holes be shining with light that we don't understand?
 
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Borrah Campbell said:
When light falls into a black hole... Its wavelength gets stretched out infinitely?

Actually I think it blueshifts as it falls in, just like how it behaves when it falls to Earth. But this may depend on your choice of coordinate systems and observers, so I'm not sure.

Borrah Campbell said:
Or is there some limit to how much a wave of light can be stretched out...

There is no limit. A light wave can be stretched or compressed to any arbitrary wavelength.

Borrah Campbell said:
Could black holes be shining with light that we don't understand?

No. Light that falls into a black hole stays there. It can never escape from beyond the event horizon.
 
"There is no limit." ... Well that was quick : ) Somebody delete this thread! lol. Thanks Drakkith for the shared knowledge.
 
To a distant observer the light is red shifted.
 
mathman said:
To a distant observer the light is red shifted.

Can you elaborate on that?
 
Drakkith said:
Can you elaborate on that?
Let me jump in.
If you're an observer deep in a gravitational well, you see light from a source at higher potential, falling in, as blueshifted. If you're an observer high in a gravitational well (i.e., distant observer), you see light coming from a source deep in the well as redshifted.
 
Light coming toward you if you are 'near' the event horizon will be red shifted if rising from deeper in the potential well and blue shifted if coming from 'outside' the well. If you're not 'in' the well, then light falling into it will be red shifted. (keeping in mind that the 'well' is theoretically infinite in size, but practically limited by the 1/r² nature of gravity.). Light will cross the event horizon at time ∞, meaning the event horizon isn't a surface in space, it is a surface in space-time. Also note that while theoretically light can have any wave-length, it isn't meaningful (since we can't measure it, ever) to consider light with wave-lengths longer that the diameter of the Observable Universe. IOW, there is a real limit on the longest wave-lengths (that being 13.8 billion light years). Beyond that, there be dragons.
 
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Bandersnatch said:
Let me jump in.
If you're an observer deep in a gravitational well, you see light from a source at higher potential, falling in, as blueshifted. If you're an observer high in a gravitational well (i.e., distant observer), you see light coming from a source deep in the well as redshifted.

Oh I understand that. I just didn't know what exactly mathman was getting at since the OP was talking about light falling into the black hole, which I took to be light falling into the event horizon. If this is all he meant then it makes perfect sense.
 
Borrah Campbell said:
The expansion of our universe stretches out light causing the phenomenon known as "redshift."

When light falls into a black hole... Its wavelength gets stretched out infinitely? Light with a flat wavelength? Or is there some limit to how much a wave of light can be stretched out... There's a limit to how fast light can move... so why not a limit on redshift... and would a black hole's gravity be enough to reach it?

If so, what would this light look like? Could we even detect it? Could black holes be shining with light that we don't understand?

I think you don't understand the concept of rates of change and limits yet. I didn't really grasp it until I took calculus.
 

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