John Nash: "Great Wits and Madness Near Allied"

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SUMMARY

John Nash, a renowned mathematician, experienced a significant return to his work in mathematics during the early 1970s after a period of mental illness, which he described as living on an "ultralogical" plane. The discussion highlights the complex relationship between genius and mental health, referencing John Dryden's quote, "Great wits are sure to madness near allied." Participants debated the psychiatric diagnoses of historical figures like Einstein and Newton, ultimately concluding that while many great minds exhibited unusual behaviors, not all fit the criteria for Asperger's syndrome or other mental health conditions.

PREREQUISITES
  • Understanding of John Nash's contributions to mathematics and game theory.
  • Familiarity with psychiatric diagnoses, particularly schizophrenia and Asperger's syndrome.
  • Knowledge of historical figures in mathematics and their mental health issues.
  • Awareness of literary references, specifically John Dryden's "Absalom and Achitophel."
NEXT STEPS
  • Research the impact of mental health on creativity in mathematics and the arts.
  • Explore the historical context of John Dryden's works and their influence on modern interpretations of genius.
  • Investigate the DSM-5 criteria for various psychiatric diagnoses, including schizophrenia and autism spectrum disorders.
  • Examine case studies of mathematicians with mental health challenges, such as Kurt Gödel and Paul Erdős.
USEFUL FOR

This discussion is beneficial for psychologists, mathematicians, historians, and anyone interested in the intersection of mental health and creativity in intellectual pursuits.

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...The disease began to evaporate in the early 1970s and Nash began to gradually to return to his work in mathematics. However, Nash himself associated his madness with his living on an "ultralogical" plane, "breathing air too rare" for most mortals, and if being "cured" meant he could no longer do any original work at that level, then, Nash argued, a remission might not be worthwhile in the end. As John Dryden once put it:

Great wits are sure to madness near allied,
And thin partitions do their bounds divide.

(John Dryden, Absalom and Achitophel, 1681) [continued]
http://cepa.newschool.edu/het/profiles/nash.htm
 
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not really anything surprising there (to me anyway). cantor was very depressed all his life, & so was russell too. i think when russell was young he'd go sit in some 'secret place' & consider suicide on a regular basis. the only thing keeping him from actually going through with it was that there were unsolved math problems. lots if math people are borderline autistic, which keeps them working obsessively on something. i think people call it asperger's syndrome, which is like autism's little brother. i read in the paper that there's evidence to suggest that einstein & Newton had it.
 
Check out Nash's reviews as well:

http://ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=25653
 
fourier jr said:
lots if math people are borderline autistic, which keeps them working obsessively on something. i think people call it asperger's syndrome, which is like autism's little brother.
I just read a book on autistic savants, among whom you find the amazing mental calculators, and another book on Asperger's syndrome. Neither of these diagnoses fit John Nash.

Nor does he fit squarely into any of the psychiatric diagnoses, although he was diagnosed as "schizophrenic". He is the only person I've ever heard of who has had such extended visual and auditory hallucinations involving recurring characters. Visual hallucinations are actually fairly rare in mental illness, and are generally not extended, and definitely not so coherent over so many years. I think John Nash has some undiagnosed organic problem.

i read in the paper that there's evidence to suggest that einstein & Newton had it.
The more I find out about Asperger's I think it is really, really unlikely that Einstein or Newton had it. They both may have had some kind of syndrome or very mild pathology, but I don't think it was Asperger's. Einstein, in particular, was too socially adept, too sensitive to social signals, to be given this diagnosis. His language delay almost rules Asperger's out since Asperger's kids tend to be the opposite: quite precocious, learning to speak and read before their contemporaries.

I actually know very little about Newton as a person except that he was a recluse and got into many heated arguments via letters. Asperger's people tend to be non-confrontational, and greatly dislike the stress of argumentation.

Some great people in history did, certainly, have major neurological problems about which there's little doubt: Julius Caesar and Dostoyevski had seizures, Samuel Johnson had Tourettes, Nikola Tesla had Obsessive-Compulsive disorder, Beethoven was bipolar (manic/depressive), but this suggested diagnosis of Asperger's doesn't actually fit in these two cases (or for John Nash).
 
"Great wits are sure to madness near allied,
And thin partitions do their bounds divide."

This has to be the original statement of the famous cliche "There is a thin line between genius and madness."

I found the poem online and went to check out the context in which it was said. However...

In looking for the context of this notion,
I found you have to navigate an ocean.
This "Absalom..." is not a minute's reading,
And slogging through it gets the sweat a'beading.

John Dryden: Absalom and Achitophel, page 1
Address:http://www.web-books.com/Classics/Poetry/Anthology/Dryden/Absalom1.htm
 
The greatest mathematicians always are either a) insane or b) are not very sociable/can not get along well with other people. Case in point

Godel- Insane. Starved himself to death. Germophobe.
Nash-Schizo
Gauss- Complete Jerk
Erdos- Hobo
Pythagoras- Thought it was sinful to eat beans

and the list goes on
 
gravenewworld said:
The greatest mathematicians always are either a) insane or b) are not very sociable/can not get along well with other people. Case in point

Godel- Insane. Starved himself to death. Germophobe.
Nash-Schizo
Gauss- Complete Jerk
Erdos- Hobo
Pythagoras- Thought it was sinful to eat beans

and the list goes on
I see that you use the DSM-0/1 for your terminology. It also includes such diagnoses as:

Looney
Nuts
Weird
Whacko
Loopy
Ditsy

And, the favorite of PF member Math Is Hard: Crazy As A Bessie-Bug
 
The_Professional said:
Check out Nash's reviews as well:

http://ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=25653

things seem to have really changed. in a beautiful mind i read that he'd put fermat's last theorem on tests & also have as a question "what is your name?" & take 25% off if they just put their name instead of the complete phrase "my name is ____". goo to see if he's changed his ways