Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's confession

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  • #1
J77
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Main Question or Discussion Point

I heard he admitted to the Guy Fawkes stunt too - but they thought no-one would believe that...

He's admitted to planning 9/11, Bali, Kenya, the shoe-bomber plus... Heathrow, Canary Wharf, Big Ben!, Isreal and the Panama canal plus... the Pope and Clinton.

The first question which comes to my mind is how seriously such admission can be taken when the confession comes out of a place like Guan. Bay.

I heard on BBC Radio 4 this morning about previous use of water torture - can someone who's been subjected to any form of long-term stress make a valid confession?

bbc link: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6452573.stm
 

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  • #2
arildno
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Torture a guy for years, and he will confess to anything you want. He might even give a true confession, on occasion.
 
  • #3
Gib Z
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What terrifies me is how simple water torture is to perform. If you are feeling particularly sadistic, you can perform it. That is disturbing to know.

I don't think these are too confessions, but if so, he must have had only the more minor of minor roles in them. Terrorists often work in networks, he may have been one of the tiny cells.
 
  • #4
drankin
"Mr Mohammed, we apologize but we cannot accept your confession. In fact, since you have previously denied having anything to do with these charges, we are going to take you on your word prior to any alleged torture. So we are going to let you go. Be good now, you hear!"

I dunno, folks. If someone says they did it, and his circumstances are plausible, we can't just say, "no you didn't you big silly", and let him walk.
 
  • #5
russ_watters
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He didn't confess under interrogation in prison (the torture allegations are just speculation), he confessed at a court hearing. I'm inclined to believe him.
 
  • #6
J77
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  • #7
russ_watters
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Most of those probably never did get out of the planning stage.
 
  • #8
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I want to know wherer you get a shirt with a neckhole that big!
 
  • #9
drankin
Well, that's quite a career he had going there. Let's be real careful not infringe on any of his human rights.
 
  • #10
That torture is now an okie-dokie thing to do to non-U.S. citizens, I expect that any and every "confession" released, even in court, will be heavily scrutinized and widely dismissed by the world jury.

Even I won't give it much weight.
 
  • #11
drankin
Yeah, let's let him go. He didn't mean it. We told him to say that stuff.
 
  • #12
BobG
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Reality matters, but the perception of justice matters almost as much.

This is one of the big problems with 'aggressive' interrogation procedures. The confessions had better not be the only thing we have to convict him with. They're virtually worthless as far as public perception goes regardless of whether he was personally subjected to torture or not.
 
  • #13
devil-fire
"Mr Mohammed, we apologize but we cannot accept your confession. In fact, since you have previously denied having anything to do with these charges, we are going to take you on your word prior to any alleged torture. So we are going to let you go. Be good now, you hear!"

I dunno, folks. If someone says they did it, and his circumstances are plausible, we can't just say, "no you didn't you big silly", and let him walk.
convicting him of crimes based on evidence is one thing, convicting him based on a confession after 4 years of what was previously considered to be torture until it came into wide spread, systematic use by the usa is not justice, its not reasonable and its not believable. if the cia has gathered evidence to suggest he was part of these plots then thats fine and thats acceptable to bring someone to trial over. if you want people to think the usa's "justice" as applied to everyone else in the world is anything but a farce for partisan political gain, then you have another thing coming.

i don't think this confession is convincing to anyone outside the usa.
 
  • #14
arildno
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Since there does not exist any solid, INDEPENDENT evidence of his guilt, his confession is utterly irrelevant.

And no, the charges of the US government against him might well have about the same substance as the US charges against Iraq for having weapons of mass destruction.

The present credibility of the US government is void, zero and nil, and Americans just have to come to terms with that FACT.
 
  • #15
-snip-

The present credibility of the US government is void, zero and nil, and Americans just have to come to terms with that FACT.
I thought we already did. Well, I speak for myself, anyways.
 
  • #16
arildno
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He didn't confess under interrogation in prison (the torture allegations are just speculation), he confessed at a court hearing. I'm inclined to believe him.
This is just naive!
Lots of witches confessed "freely", under the APPREHENSION of torture and experience of PRIVATION, not during the torture session itself.
In any case, in the Middle Ages, one always took care that the accused should re-CONFIRM her confession, if it had been made first during torture.

Are you inclined to believe them as well?
 
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  • #17
cromagnum
This just in:

The sheikh just admitted to shaving Britney's head.
 
  • #18
drankin
This just in:

The sheikh just admitted to shaving Britney's head.
AHA! I knew it!
 
  • #19
Ivan Seeking
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The present credibility of the US government is void, zero and nil, and Americans just have to come to terms with that FACT.
That's right. And many Americans now feel the same way.
 
  • #20
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any idiot exxept bush knows that confessions under torture are worthless. I challenge anyone on this forum to bet 50,000 bucks on not saying anything during two weeks of torture. Idiotic concept.
 
  • #21
Ivan Seeking
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The real problem is that credibility is a matter of perception. Even if the confession is completely valid, who besides Bush supporters would believe it now?
 
  • #22
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anyone who watched 1950's movies?
 
  • #23
Art
I believe Khalid Sheikh Mohammed's confession is about as believable as the confessions of the British sailors being held by the Iranians that they were in Iranian waters when taken prisoner. i.e. not very. And they hadn't been held for years undergoing 'stress' interrogation techniques when they 'confessed'.

If the Iranians do 'question' the sailors using Rumsfeld et al's approved methods and use confessions gained to prosecute them for espionage or the like I wonder will the US and UK consider this acceptable or will they denounce it as torture. An interesting conundrum for them and highlights the dangers in setting such precedents.
 
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  • #24
arildno
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The real problem is that credibility is a matter of perception. Even if the confession is completely valid, who besides Bush supporters would believe it now?
Agreed. He might well be guilty, but his confession is still worthless.
 
  • #25
drankin
Shouldn't have taken him prisoner in the first place. If you know what I mean.
 

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