Laurentian vs. Queens for Physics

[Mom23]

Mod note: Changed "astrophysics" in thread title and below.
Hello - I am asking this on behalf of my daughter who plans to start her undergrad in the fall. She wants to major in physics. She has narrowed her choices to either Laurentian or Queens (with the coop program at McMaster a distant third). We have visited Queens, and were all set to attend Laurentian at the start of March break when the open house was canceled due to the pandemic. She is realistic that this may not happen before she needs to make her decision by the start of June. She knows both programs are on the smaller side compared to other universities, that there are good student supports at both schools, both have access to SNOlab and both are cold in the winter

So now she has hit a wall. She was hoping to get the vibe of Laurentian to help make her decision. Without this, she is feeling a bit overwhelmed about making the “right” choice, which is why as a somewhat objective party I am trying to help her gather information.

Is there any insight that someone can offer about the program/physics student life at either of these schools?

Thank you

 

[Mom23]

Correction: physics, not astrophysics

 

[klotza]

Hi,
I did my undergrad at Queen's in physics. I took the first year astrophysics course there with Stephen Courteau, which was honestly perhaps the best and most informative course I took my entire time there. I also took general relativity with Laurence Widrow in my senior year, and did an honour's thesis with Kayll Lake (possibly retired now) also in general relativity. That was my last serious encounter with astrophysics for a while; I went on to do a masters and PhD at McGill, then a postdoc at MIT, and am now a professor in California.

I can tell you that the Queen's program is strong, my classmates who had more of an astro focus than I did had some really great opportunities, like getting to go to telescopes in Hawaii during the summers. A few others went to work at SNOLAB one summer. I don't know much about Laurentian and I've never been to Sudbury. I don't think either would be a "bad" choice. I'm biased, but in terms of reputation Queen's is ahead of Laurentian (I feel like if you asked Canadian academics they'd put Queen's in the 5-10 but not have Laurentian in the top 10), but that's really not the entire picture.

Anyway, this may not be too helpful because I only have half the knowledge you're looking for, but I'd be happy to answer any followup questions you may have.

One thing I should add, although I just did physics as a science, the Engineering Physics program at Queen's is very, very strong. If your daughter has just been accepted to science in both it will be non-trivial to transfer, but also not impossible.

 

[Mark44]

Correction: physics, not astrophysics

As noted in post #1, the title has been changed to physics.

 

[Mom23]

Thank you klotza that is helpful. Not much expectation that there will be folks who have direct experience with both schools, but shared experiences at either are very valuable! Thanks again.

 

[gwnorth]

I have to say that choosing between Queen's and Laurentian seems to be an unusual choice as the two schools generally attract a very different student profile. Did your daughter narrow down her choice based on a perceived greater accessibility to SNOLab because she will have equal access regardless of school choice. It's just the same as that attending Waterloo does not automatically give greater access to the Perimeter Institute.

We toured Queen's when my son was applying to university and he was accepted to both sciences and engineering (with an eye towards Eng Phys). While I am not as familiar with Laurentian I do have a nephew attending there for Geosciences so I can give a bit of feedback regarding the differences.

In terms of program size Physics is not the most popular program at any school so the program will be on the small side at even the largest of universities. My son is finishing up his first year at McMaster and while the majority of his classes this year were quite large, his Physics classes were specific to students in the Physical Sciences and only had about 120 students. I anticipate that maybe 75 students will declare Physics in some form as a major so the majority of his classes next year will be relatively small. Queen's will be similar in terms of class sizes. Laurentian's program will be very small which may give less flexibility in terms of course scheduling. Also while any undergraduate physics program regardless of school is going to have the same core curriculum you might want to look at the specific program structure at both schools and also see what range of electives are offered. You'll find the details in the Academic Calendar.

One of biggest differences between the two schools as you no doubt know is the relative strength of the students as Queen's is considerably more competitive for admissions and generally attracts students with a stronger academic profile. Queen's also has a higher overall graduation rate. Queen's also gives out more scholarship money.

With regards to location while both schools will have a lot of snow in the winter and they will both be quite cold as you have mentioned, you should be aware that Laurentian's campus is outside of town and is pretty isolated. There isn't much available off campus in the general vicinity. As a result most students live in residence for all 4 years. At Queen's most students move off campus after 1st year and there is plenty of student housing nearby. My nephew has lived in an apartment style residence at Laurentian and it seemed quite nice. Queen's residences are older and some are not as nice and living in residence at Queen's is more expensive than at Laurentian.

Another thing you may want to consider is the logistics of traveling between home and school. It's not as easy to get to Laurentian via public transportation. With my nephew whenever he comes home his parents drive up to go get him and the entire trip takes about 16 hours there and back but that will of course differ depending on where you live. Still Kingston is on the VIA train line but there is only bus service to Sudbury and it is not a direct route to anywhere. You might want to keep that in mind when choosing especially given the uncertainty of the current situation with corona virus. If things blow up again and schools close again you might prefer having her closer to home (whichever school maybe closer to you).

As a final consideration my general opinion is that Laurentian's campus is not as aesthetically pleasing as Queen's but that's just a personal preference.

 

[Mom23]

Thank you so much gwnorth, a very informative reply! I think for her, smaller class sizes are most attractive, and there was a perception, perhaps from the Toronto uni fair in the fall, that there are more undergrad opportunities at SNOlab via LU. We were hoping to clarify this point at LU’s spring open house which was cancelled. But hearing from people like yourself is invaluable, and we appreciate you taking the time to reply. Good luck to your son with his undergrad! (Mac would be my first choice for her as it’s less than an hour away, but right now it’s third on her list...). Thanks again!

 

[gwnorth]

@Mom23 I suspect we live in the same neck of the woods :).

You could try reaching out to the faculties via email as I am sure they would be pleased to answer any questions you might have. I've also found each school's Reddit site valuable as it is peopled by actual students who could give you a better feel for campus life and classes. When my son was deciding on school's I would read the Reddit posts for the schools he was considering. It gave a feel for what each school's community was like (though realizing that it may not be a representative sample of the students who go there).

Best of luck to your daughter.

 

[Mom23]

@gwnorth Thank you again! She mentioned she’s subscribed to those Reddits but I haven’t checked them out myself. It’s all a moot point now anyways since she just accepted the offer to Queens. She was a lot closer to her decision than she let on. I had a strong preference for Queens based on the totality of the information gathered so far. But I wanted it to be her decision in the end, and as free from her parents’ bias as possible! Now we wait to see what starting university amidst a pandemic will be like...

 

[gwnorth]

Congrats to your daughter! I was initially a bit disappointed when my son chose Mac as I was hoping he would opt for Engineering Physics at Queen's, but like you I wanted him to decide for himself without my interference. In retrospect now I think he made the right decision for him, which just goes to show parents don't always know best :)

I too am wondering what school in the fall is going to look like. My son is at this very moment writing his online Chem final. He's a very motivated student and can manage on-line self-directed courses but even so the disruption to the semester took a bit of toll on him. It's obviously not an ideal situation and I'm wondering if they continue on-line in the fall how they are going to manage the lab courses. I'm glad that he at least got a near normal first year experience. I feel a lot of sympathy for the incoming freshmen this year.

 

[Mom23]

Thank you. I thought waiting to hear about acceptance would be the toughest step for her, but deciding which offer to accept turned out to be much harder haha.

I have another daughter in college working part time at a grocery store (scheduled like a full timer these last several weeks - but that’s another story) while trying to finish the year online. My son is in grade 11 and not suited to online learning at all. I can’t imagine what September is going to look like for students of any age , but I really feel for all of them at the moment.

You’re right though - labs are a huge part of the learning experience for science students, especially after first year. I hope they can come up with a way to continue those.