Limiting value of Hubble constant

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the limiting value of the Hubble constant as the universe approaches perfect exponential expansion. Participants explore the implications of dark energy on this limiting value and the time frame for the universe to expand ten-fold, engaging in both theoretical and mathematical reasoning.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the Hubble constant approaches a limiting value as the universe expands exponentially, suggesting a value around 60 to 62 based on the LambdaCDM model parameters.
  • One participant mentions that the asymptotic value of the Hubble constant is never quite attained, leading to uncertainty about when it will be reached.
  • Another participant questions how long it will take for the universe to expand ten-fold and seeks a method to calculate that duration.
  • A response indicates that for a constant Hubble constant, the time for a ten-fold expansion can be approximated using the formula a ∝ e^(Ht), suggesting it would take approximately 31 billion years.
  • There is a clarification regarding the nature of acceleration in the context of the scale factor, with some participants discussing the implications of deceleration on the rate of increase of the scale factor.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the limiting value of the Hubble constant and the time frame for the universe's expansion. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise limiting value and the calculation of the time required for the ten-fold expansion.

Contextual Notes

Participants rely on specific parameters such as the dark energy fraction and the assumptions of the LambdaCDM model, which may influence their calculations and conclusions. There is also a dependence on the interpretation of acceleration and its effects on the scale factor.

Ranku
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As the universe approaches perfect exponential expansion the Hubble constant approaches a limiting value. What is the limiting value and how long from now will it be reached?
 
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Ranku said:
As the universe approaches perfect exponential expansion the Hubble constant approaches a limiting value. What is the limiting value and how long from now will it be reached?

Take the current value, approximately 71 and multiply by the square root of the dark energy fraction.
If you like 0.73 for the dark energy fraction (these are the default values for those parameters that you find, for instance, in Ned Wright's online cosmo calculator, and they are roughly what you get from the confidence intervals in the WMAP7 report that came out this month)
then what you want is 71*sqrt(.73) = 60.66
which rounds to either 60 or 61, whichever you like.

It would be gauche to overstate the accuracy. I would say the asymptotic value of H is "around 60" according to the standard LambdaCDM model parameters.

You can see the reasoning for this immediately from the Friedman equations, if you want to check it out. Google Friedman equations.

Since it is an asymptotic value, where the declining H kind of levels out but which is never quite attained, one can't say when it will be reached. But certainly by the time the scalefactor is 10 times what it is today we will be very close.

How close? Instead of .73+.27 the situation will be .73+.027 = .757 and the value will be
71*sqrt(.757) = 61.77 which rounds to 62. So when Uni has expanded ten-fold we will be pretty close to the asymptotic Hubble.

People are sometimes puzzled by this because they have the misconception that "acceleration" means that the Hubble rate is increasing, but it is not, and I think you understand that it is the scalefactor a(t) that is increasing and acceleration means that a(t) increase is speeding up, the second time-derivative a"(t) is positive.
 
Last edited:
marcus said:
So when Uni has expanded ten-fold we will be pretty close to the asymptotic Hubble.

How long will it take for the universe to expand ten-fold ? How to calculate that?

I think you understand that it is the scalefactor a(t) that is increasing and acceleration means that a(t) increase is speeding up, the second time-derivative a"(t) is positive.

When the universe was decelerating was the scalefactor increasing at a decreasing rate?
 
How long will it take for the universe to expand ten-fold ? How to calculate that?
For a constant H (a good approximation), you get the solution [itex]a \propto e^{Ht}[/itex]. That's an e-fold expansion in 1/H, and tenfold in 2.3/H ~ 31 Gy.
When the universe was decelerating was the scalefactor increasing at a decreasing rate?
Yes.
 
Thank you both.:smile:
 

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