Objects collapsing to black holes

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter snackster17
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Black holes Holes
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of black holes, particularly focusing on the phenomena related to their formation, density, and the implications of their gravitational effects. Participants explore theoretical aspects, mathematical interpretations, and conceptual clarifications regarding black holes and their singularities.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses curiosity about how an object with finite density can generate endless energy and questions whether it contracts to create a fold in spacetime.
  • Another participant discusses two approaches to understanding black hole density: a mathematical perspective that leads to infinite density due to point mass distribution, and a pragmatic approach that defines density based on the volume enclosed by the event horizon, which can yield finite values.
  • A participant challenges the notion of infinite density, suggesting that singularities are mathematical artifacts and that infinite density is not necessary for the existence of an event horizon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple competing views regarding the nature of black holes, their density, and the concept of energy generation. The discussion remains unresolved, with differing interpretations and understandings of the phenomena involved.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in definitions and assumptions regarding black hole density and the nature of singularities. There are unresolved mathematical interpretations and varying perspectives on the implications of these concepts.

snackster17
Messages
27
Reaction score
0
Im going to keep this very concise, mainly because i vaguely understand what I am discussing but anyways, as most informed people are aware black holes have an infinitely strong pull at their singularity and can even inhibit light.
I am curious as towards the actual phenomena or reasons how an object with finite density could generate endless energy. Does it just contract until it makes a fold in spacetime?

To expatiate on that, what is the circumference or the pinnacle distance of gravitational effects emitted from the black hole if any. input would be very appreciated
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
snackster17 said:
I am curious as towards the actual phenomena or reasons how an object with finite density could generate endless energy. Does it just contract until it makes a fold in spacetime?

To speak of the density of a black hole is to invite confusion. Really, there are two routes one can go for discussing the density of such an object.

1. The mathematical route. As I described in a recent thread, a black hole is really a solution to Einstein's equations with a delta-function mass distribution -- that is, a point particle. Since points occupy zero volume, their density is infinite. This is perhaps the more correct of the two approaches, but it gives us very little information so most of the time we opt for the second result:

2. The pragmatic. A black hole is defined best by a single length scale: the size of its event horizon. I'm sure you know about event horizons, but it bears repeating that there is nothing pathological or physical about the horizon itself -- it is a mathematical boundary in spacetime. So usually when we talk about density we divide the total mass of the hole by the volume enclosed by the event horizon, thus yielding a finite number. And indeed, this density can actually be made arbitrarily small by increasing the mass of the hole!

As far as the endless energy part, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by this. What makes you say a black hole is capable of supplying an infinite amount of energy? Certainly, a finite amount of energy goes into creating the object!
 
Singularities are mathematical artifacts, IMO. Infinite density is not required to generate an event horizon.
 
thanks
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
5K
  • · Replies 27 ·
Replies
27
Views
6K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
5K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K