Parity Selection Rules: I'm Confused

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the parity selection rules in quantum mechanics as presented in Landau's textbook. Participants are examining the implications of parity on matrix elements involving odd and even states, specifically focusing on the treatment of scalar functions under coordinate inversion.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion regarding the treatment of the matrix element ##f_{ug}## and its relation to parity, questioning the presence of a negative sign in the expression as stated in the text.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on the variable ##q## and the limits of the integrals involved in the discussion.
  • A later reply acknowledges the need for an additional minus sign due to the inversion of limits in the integral, suggesting a correction to the earlier confusion.
  • Another participant challenges the reasoning about the additional negative sign, asserting that if ##f(q) = f(-q)##, then the sign should not be present, provided the function is a true scalar under parity.
  • One participant clarifies their understanding of the change of variables in the integral, noting that while they took ##dq' = -dq##, they also reversed the limits of integration, leading to the conclusion that ##f_{ug} = -f_{ug}##.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the treatment of the negative sign in the matrix element expression, indicating that there is no consensus on the correct interpretation of the parity selection rules in this context.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the definitions of the variables and the limits of integration, which may affect the conclusions drawn from the discussion.

ergospherical
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I'm confused by the discussion in section §30 (Parity of a state), page 98 of Landau's QM. The functions ##\psi_u## and ##\psi_g## are odd an even states respectively. If ##f## is a true scalar, then it should remain unchanged by inversion of the co-ordinates. Writing ##q' = -q##, then its matrix element at position ##(u,g)## is\begin{align*}
f_{ug} = \int \psi_u^*(q) \hat{f}(q) \psi_g(q) dq =-\int [-\psi_u^*(q')] \hat{f}(q') \psi_g(q') dq' = \int \psi_u^*(q') \hat{f}(q') \psi_g(q') dq'
\end{align*}however it is written in the text that ##f_{ug} = -f_{ug}##. What did I mis-understand?
 
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What is ##q##? What are the limits of all those integrals?
 
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Gaussian97 said:
What is ##q##? What are the limits of all those integrals?
Oh yes, thanks, there should be an extra minus sign due to inverting the limits of the third integral.
 
ergospherical said:
I'm confused by the discussion in section §30 (Parity of a state), page 98 of Landau's QM. The functions ##\psi_u## and ##\psi_g## are odd an even states respectively. If ##f## is a true scalar, then it should remain unchanged by inversion of the co-ordinates. Writing ##q' = -q##, then its matrix element at position ##(u,g)## is\begin{align*}
f_{ug} = \int \psi_u^*(q) \hat{f}(q) \psi_g(q) dq =-\int [-\psi_u^*(q')] \hat{f}(q') \psi_g(q') dq' = \int \psi_u^*(q') \hat{f}(q') \psi_g(q') dq'
\end{align*}however it is written in the text that ##f_{ug} = -f_{ug}##. What did I mis-understand?
Where does the additional ##-## sign after the 2nd equality sign come from? This should be absent since ##f(q)=f(-q)## by assumption, if I understand right what you mean by "true scalar", i.e., a scalar under rotations AND parity.
 
ergospherical said:
Oh yes, thanks, there should be an extra minus sign due to inverting the limits of the third integral.
No, why? You have
$$\mathrm{d}^3 q' =\left | \mathrm{det} \frac{\partial(q')}{\partial q} \right| \mathrm{d}^3 q = |-1| \mathrm{d}^3 q=\mathrm{d}^3 q.$$
 
I have taken ##dq’ = -dq##, but in changing variables must also reverse the limits of the integral
\begin{align*}
f_{ug} = \int_{-\infty}^{\infty} \psi_u^*(q) \hat{f}(q) \psi_g(q) dq &=-\int_{\infty}^{-\infty} [-\psi_u^*(q')] \hat{f}(q') \psi_g(q') dq' \\
&= \int_{\infty}^{-\infty} \psi_u^*(q') \hat{f}(q') \psi_g(q') dq' \\
&= -f_{ug}
\end{align*}
 
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