Particle identification in detectors

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on methods for identifying particles in detectors, specifically focusing on distinguishing between electrons, muons, and other negatively charged particles without the use of magnetic fields. The scope includes theoretical and experimental aspects of particle detection techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that different types of charged particles can be distinguished by their production of Cerenkov light, which varies based on the optical index of the medium and the momentum of the particles.
  • Others mention that the energy loss characteristics of particles, such as the Bethe-Bloch formula, can help differentiate between electrons and muons in calorimeters, as electrons lose energy more rapidly than muons.
  • Time of flight measurements are suggested as a method to separate muons from pions and other particles, with one participant sharing personal experience using this technique.
  • Some participants discuss the potential of using electric fields, such as Wien filters, and varying pressure in Cerenkov detectors to measure particle velocities and assist in identification.
  • There is a clarification that the initial question about avoiding magnetic fields was meant to explore alternative methods for distinguishing particle velocities.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express various methods for particle identification, but there is no consensus on a singular approach or the necessity of avoiding magnetic fields. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best techniques for distinguishing between particles without magnetic fields.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on specific detector designs and the varying effectiveness of methods based on particle energy and type. Some assumptions about the conditions under which these methods are effective are not fully explored.

ghery
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Hello:

Can anyone please tell me how do they identify the particles in the detectors?+, for instance, how do you know if an electron is an electron and not a muon or some other negative charged particle in a detector (without using magnetic fields)?
 
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ghery said:
for instance, how do you know if an electron is an electron and not a muon or some other negative charged particle in a detector (without using magnetic fields)?
I do not know why you would like not to use a magnetic field : it is very convenient to measure the ratio charge/momentum. Anyway, muons and electrons will give different Cerenkov light (you will need to choose the medium optical index in advance, according to the range in momentum you are interested in). If your muon is slow enough you may be able to measure the time of flight accurately enough to distinguish with an electron. Also, they produce different electromagnetic interactions in heavy material at a given incident energy (the showering process for muons in calorimeters requires much more energy than for electrons).
 
Hi ghery-
A high energy electron going into a 20-radiation-length lead-scintillator calorimeter sandwich would lose all its energy and stop. A muon of the same energy would lose only about 2 MeV per gram per cm-squared of material (Bethe-Bloch de/dx). Many years ago, I used time of flight (with 1-ns time resolution) to separate muons and pions in a low-momentum beam.
Bob S
 
ghery said:
...(without using magnetic fields)?

Two fast charged particles of the same velocity make the same ionisation traces so using some magnetic filed and other things to distinguish the particle masses and charges is important.
 
Last edited:
When I wrote "without using magnetic fields" what I really meant was if there was any other way to distinguish for example the velocity of a charged particle besides the use of magnetic fields?
 
Hi ghery-
Lead-scintillator detectors can discriminate between electrons (electromagnetic showers) muons (minimum ionizing track) and mesons and hadrons (hadronic showers). Energy can be estimated for electromagnetic and hadronic showers.
Cerenkov counters (mentioned above) can measure the Cerenkov light angle (Cerenkov ring detectors) to select the particle velocity. Varying the pressure in high-pressure gas Cerenkov detectors has been used to identify particles by varying the threshold particle velocity.
Electric fields, often in Wien filters, have been used as velocity detectors. See
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wien_filter
Particle time-of-flight (mentioned above) between two plastic scintillators or Cerenkov radiators on photomultiplier tubes has been used to select particle velocities.
Bob S
 

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