Permutation group and character table

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of a permutation group G consisting of 36 elements, specifically focusing on the character table and conjugacy classes as calculated using GAP software. Participants explore the implications of the character table's output, particularly the sum of the orders of the conjugacy classes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant notes that the character table for group G shows 18 conjugacy classes with orders summing to 72, raising a question about the validity of this result given that G has only 36 elements.
  • Another participant emphasizes that each element belongs to exactly one conjugacy class, suggesting that the sum of the orders should equal the order of the group, but without additional information, further analysis is limited.
  • A later reply reiterates the need for more specifics about the group and the conjugacy classes to proceed with the analysis.
  • One participant provides a detailed list of the permutations that constitute the group, along with the character table output from GAP.
  • Another participant points out that one of the quoted conjugacy classes includes an element not listed among the group's elements, indicating a potential discrepancy in the group's definition.
  • The original poster expresses gratitude for the feedback and indicates a willingness to recheck the group elements in light of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus; there are multiple competing views regarding the validity of the character table output and the completeness of the group elements. The discussion remains unresolved as participants seek further clarification and information.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the group elements and the definitions of the conjugacy classes. The closure of the group operation has not been verified, and the implications of the character table's output are not fully explored.

Konte
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Hi everybody,

I work currently with permutation group, and with the good advice of this forum I discover GAP software (https://www.gap-system.org/) which is an excellent tools for working with group.
My question is about something that is too strange for me: I have a permutation group G composed of 36 elements (a non abelian group). When I calculate with GAP the character table of G, it has 18 classes of congugacy, each one with order of:
$$1, 4, 1, 4, 9, 9, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 6$$
It implicates now that G has ##2\times36=72## elements !
Is it normal or have I missed something?

Thank you much.

Konte.
 
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Each element in the group belongs to exactly one conjugacy class so the sum of the orders of the conjugacy classes should be the order of the group. Without more specifics, it is difficult to analyse your situation.
 
Orodruin said:
Each element in the group belongs to exactly one conjugacy class so the sum of the orders of the conjugacy classes should be the order of the group. Without more specifics, it is difficult to analyse your situation.

Thank you for your answer.

- I have a group G of exactly 36 elements (permutations).
- When I ask the GAP program to show me the orders of the conjugacy classes, it gives me the following answer: $$1, 4, 1, 4, 9, 9, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 6$$
- So as you can see, the sum of those numbers exceed 36.

If necessary, I can give on new post the set of permutation that compose the group.

Konte
 
Last edited:
As I said, without more information about what group you are considering and what conjugacy classes are quoted by your program, we cannot get any further.
 
Ok, the 36 elements are permutations:
a0= id.
a1=(1,17)(2,18)(3,16)(4,15)(5,14)(6,13)(7,12)(8,11)(9,10)
a2=(7,3)(8,4)(11,15)(12,16)(19,20)
a3=(1,17)(2,18)(3,12)(4,11)(5,14)(6,13)(7,16)(8,15)(9,10)(19,20)
a4=(3,5,7)(4,6,8)
a5=(1,17)(2,18)(3,14,5,12,7,16)(4,13,6,11,8,15)(9,10)
a6=(3,5)(4,6)(11,15)(12,16)(19,20)
a7=(1,17)(2,18)(3,14,5,16,7,12)(4,13,6,15,8,11)(9,10)(19,20)
a8=(3,7,5)(4,8,6)
a9=(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,7,14,5,16)(4,11,8,13,6,15)(9,10)
a10=(5,7)(6,8)(11,15)(12,16)(19,20)
a11=(1,17)(2,18)(3,16,7,14,5,12)(4,15,8,13,6,11)(9,10)(19,20)
a12=(11,13,15)(12,14,16)
a13=(1,17)(2,18)(3,16,7,12,5,14)(4,15,8,11,6,13)
a14=(3,7)(4,8)(11,13)(12,14)(19,20)
a15=(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,5,14,7,16)(4,11,6,13,8,15)(9,10)(19,20)
a16=(3,5,7)(4,6,8)(11,13,15)(12,14,16)
a17=(1,17)(2,18)(3,14)(4,13)(5,12)(6,11)(7,16)(8,15)(9,10)
a18=(3,5)(4,6)(11,13)(12,14)(19,20)
a19=(1,17)(2,18)(3,14,7,12,5,16)(4,13,8,11,6,15)(9,10)(19,20)
a20=(3,7,5)(4,8,6)(11,13,15)(12,14,16)
a21=(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,5,16,7,14)(4,11,6,15,8,13)(9,10)
a22=(5,7)(6,8)(11,13)(12,14)(19,20)
a23=(1,17)(2,18)(3,16)(4,15)(5,12)(6,11)(7,14)(8,13)(9,10)(19,20)
a24=(11,15,13)(12,16,14)
a25=(1,17)(2,18)(3,16,5,14,7,12)(4,15,6,13,8,11)(9,10)
a26=(3,7)(4,8)(13,15)(14,16)(19,20)
a27=(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,7,16,5,14)(4,11,8,15,6,13)(9,10)(19,20)
a28=(3,5,7)(4,6,8)(11,15,13)(12,16,14)
a29=(1,17)(2,18)(3,14,7,16,5,12)(4,13,8,15,6,11)(9,10)
a30=(3,5)(4,6)(13,15)(14,16)(19,20)
a31=(1,17)(2,18)(3,14)(4,13)(5,16)(6,15)(7,12)(8,11)(9,10)(19,20)
a32=(3,7,5)(4,8,6)(11,15,13)(12,16,14)
a33=(1,17)(2,18)(3,12)(4,11)(5,16)(6,15)(7,14)(8,13)(9,10)
a34=(5,7)(6,8)(13,15)(14,16)(19,20)
a35=(1,17)(2,18)(3,16,5,12,7,14)(4,15,6,11,8,13)(9,10)(19,20)

The character table given by the program is:

char.png


The size of each congugacy classes:## 1, 4, 1, 4, 9, 9, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 6, 3, 6##

The elements of the 18 conjugacy classes given by the program are:
id.,
(11,13,15)(12,14,16),
(9,10),
(9,10)(11,13,15)(12,14,16),
(5,7)(6,8)(13,15)(14,16)(19,20),
(5,7)(6,8)(9,10)(13,15)(14,16)(19,20),
(3,5,7)(4,6,8)(11,13,15)(12,14,16),
(3,5,7)(4,6,8)(11,15,13)(12,16,14),
(3,5,7)(4,6,8)(9,10)(11,13,15)(12,14,16),
(3,5,7)(4,6,8)(9,10)(11,15,13)(12,16,14),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12)(4,11)(5,14)(6,13)(7,16)(8,15)(19,20),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,5,14,7,16)(4,11,6,13,8,15)(19,20),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12)(4,11)(5,14)(6,13)(7,16)(8,15)(9,10)(19,20),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,5,14,7,16)(4,11,6,13,8,15)(9,10)(19,20),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12)(4,11)(5,16)(6,15)(7,14)(8,13),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,5,16,7,14)(4,11,6,15,8,13),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12)(4,11)(5,16)(6,15)(7,14)(8,13)(9,10),
(1,17)(2,18)(3,12,5,16,7,14)(4,11,6,15,8,13)(9,10),Thanks.
Konte
 
Assuming that your quoted conjugacy classes are just given a single element of each conjugacy class:

Konte said:
(9,10),

This conjugacy class is here represented by an element that is not in your listing of the group elements. Of course, I have not checked the closure of your group operation, but it would seem to me that the program thinks you have elements in your group that you do not think that you have.
 
Thank you for your answer, it really helps me. Now, I will re-check the group if all elements are there.
Konte.
 

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