Physics Forum Mentors arrogant?

[Whalstib]

Hi,

I feel this is an issue that needs addressing. On several occasions I have been involved in discussions that were destroyed but mentors being over zealous for their own point of view. Last year I was bigotedly attacked in no uncertain terms by a still active mentor. This case I was labeled what I was not and basically verbally bullied held up against a wall and berated for my beliefs by a mentor numerous times. This was an out and out act of bigotry yet he remains in the graces of PF. While at least one member was banned for simply showing a photo of bull poop as a response...

I have made several complaints to higher ups and not heard back. I think this is a concern to all of us.

I'm am finding these guys / gals basically pretty arrogant.

They tend to act rather Mayor Dalyish

"... the policeman isn't there to create disorder, the policeman is there to preserve disorder."

If I get in a heated discussion here you can be sure a mentor with elbow through and not leave it alone.

I love a good controversial debate, exchange of ideas but increasingly the overall tone is one of arguing for the sake of arguing and the mentors are the most guilty. My experiences on several occasions have been these guys will steer a discussion away from its direction and constantly aim for the ditch. I notice this when they run out of ideas and can't answer simple questions posed to them. Instead walking away, or admitting wrong or asking for clarification or presenting well though out alternatives they start mining the posts for passages that taken out of context says what they want, ignoring the original thought or any clarifications down stream. Humorless and ultra sensitive to boot!

I think it would be a simple matter for those in authority to be held to a higher standard and not abuse topics for their own agenda.Any others find any truth in this?

W

 

[PAllen]

None whatsoever.

 

[dlgoff]

I sometimes disagree with things posted in the "non-science" threads, e.g. https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20", but then that's not what I'm here for. Hello...Physics Forums.

Anyway, IMO; like it or leave it.

 

[Evo]

Well, since you decided to bring it up. You have only received one infraction and it was for this post.

Mkorr

All that is clear is you are terrible scientist based on your misguided and totally wrong assumptions about me. You leap to conclusions and attack based on differing opinions and have demonstrated you are nothing more than a hack with a big mouth and nothing to add to the discussion.

Problem is you are probably in the position to bully others with your opinions judging by your heavy tone. I suppose it fuels your prideful nature.

Thanks for demonstrating that the discussion is fueled by a loud mouth less educated brand of scientist.

Funniest part is I'm quite positive you are so self absorbed to have not bothered to read my other posts.

I think the appropriate term is. "Piece of work"

Adios

W

In this thread where you tried to use a religious argument to debunk evolution.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=3178708

 

[PAllen]

I sometimes disagree with things posted in the "non-science" threads, e.g. https://www.physicsforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=20", but then that's not what I'm here for. Hello...Physics Forums.

Anyway, IMO; like it or leave it.

Right, I've never looked in, nor intend to look in those forums. I can get political discussion anywhere.

 

[Dembadon]

If you're looking to start a revolution within a community of scientifically-minded people, then melodrama simply isn't going to cut it. I hope you find a forum that suits your interests.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I take it that this is response by you has been initiated by the locking of the Telepathy thread in S&D? Where from post 67 onwards you related an anecdote that resembled a famous kind of magic trick and then categorically stated that it could not be a trick (before gratuitously lecturing others on their emotions, use of the scientific method and whether or not they could legitimately comment because they weren't there).

If this is the case then you are clearly levelling this at me. Is this true? Because if so you are making some very serious accusations of bullying on my part and that is not something I take lightly.

 

[micromass]

Any others find any truth in this?

No.

If Evo's post is indicative of the kind of posts you made, then your infractions are deserved.

 

[Dembadon]

No.

If Evo's post is indicative of the kind of posts you made, then your infractions are deserved.

No kidding. Nearly every sentence in that quote contains an ad hominem.Whalstib, if you enjoy debates and discussion, you should really learn how to do it appropriately.

 

[cmb]

I don't recognise most of what you are raising, but I do recognise "I have made several complaints to higher ups and not heard back.".

Where there are rules, there should also be some transparent and accountable procedures posted up to cover where people feel aggrieved by them.

People are bound to get upset by not being permitted to state a case, to subsequently receive a reasonable reply that addresses the points of the case they have made, and for that reply to be ratified by independent parties.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

I don't recognise most of what you are raising, but I do recognise "I have made several complaints to higher ups and not heard back.".

Where there are rules, there should also be some transparent and accountable procedures posted up to cover where people feel aggrieved by them.

People are bound to get upset by not being permitted to state a case, to subsequently receive a reasonable reply that addresses the points of the case they have made, and for that reply to be ratified by independent parties.

Anyone who receives an infraction can PM a mentor regarding it. Whenever this happens the matter is brought to the attention of the other mentors who then discuss it, this happens all the time. Sometimes the original infraction is reversed, most of the time the user is sent an explanation of why it will stand.

 

[cmb]

There are many forms of disability that might mean one person's 'misunderstanding' is another persons 'infraction'. To fail to provide the opportunity to follow such situations up may be considered a disability discrimination. This website will, naturally, have more than its fair share of Asperger's types, who are a group recognised as suffering communication disabilities.

[Nothwithstanding obvious abuse] Everyone should deserve a second chance to explain, withdraw, correct and/or discuss, something they posted, rather than be summarily and promptly castigated by mentors for it, without any opportunity for re-evaluation.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

There are many forms of disability that might mean one person's 'misunderstanding' is another persons 'infraction'. To fail to provide the opportunity to follow such situations up may be considered a disability discrimination. This website will, naturally, have more than its fair share of Asperger's types, who are a group recognised as suffering communication disabilities.

[Nothwithstanding obvious abuse] Everyone should deserve a second chance to explain, withdraw, correct and/or discuss, something they posted, rather than be summarily and promptly castigated by mentors for it, without any opportunity for re-evaluation.

Rest assured that any and all infractions are available for review by all mentors and there are frequent discussions if; a user PMs regarding an infraction, if a mentor wants someone to review their decision or if another mentor disagrees with the infraction. Everyone has the chance to appeal.

 

[I like Serena]

Where did you get that people might not get a second chance to explain?
And where did you get that any mentors might suffer from "communication disabilities"?
Let's not generalize this into "Asperger's syndrome" which is only diagnosed in childhood.

 

[cmb]

Where did you get that people might not get a second chance to explain?

Because it happened to me. A prompt and immediate infraction given. No warning.

I explained what I meant, and did not get a response to the point I made.

The detail of the infraction has been made 'private' in my public profile. I would prefer it was made public so that people looking in can judge for themselves. I do not know why the detail of it is hidden.

I do not want my contribution to this thread to be about my situation, however. I am not debating the issues of my infractions. All I want is for this thread to be about asking why PF resists moving towards developing a TRANSPARENT and ACCOUNTABLE process for people to raise cases.

 

[PAllen]

There are many forms of disability that might mean one person's 'misunderstanding' is another persons 'infraction'. To fail to provide the opportunity to follow such situations up may be considered a disability discrimination. This website will, naturally, have more than its fair share of Asperger's types, who are a group recognised as suffering communication disabilities.

[Nothwithstanding obvious abuse] Everyone should deserve a second chance to explain, withdraw, correct and/or discuss, something they posted, rather than be summarily and promptly castigated by mentors for it, without any opportunity for re-evaluation.

My experience (starting from when I was a newbie here) is that I have sent perhaps 3 PMs to mentors regarding policies or site issues. Each received an informative response, which I found satisfactory. Of course, I am sure mistakes have been made in one case or another; I'll consider getting riled up about that after I've made my last.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

Because it happened to me. A prompt and immediate infraction given. No warning.

I explained what I meant, and did not get a response to the point I made.

The detail of the infraction has been made 'private' in my public profile. I would prefer it was made public so that people looking in can judge for themselves. I do not know why the detail of it is hidden.

I do not want my contribution to this thread to be about my situation, however. I am not debating the issues of my infractions. All I want is for this thread to be about asking why PF resists moving towards developing a TRANSPARENT and ACCOUNTABLE process for people to raise cases.

This is untrue, I have checked the records and both times you have been infracted your PMs to the mentors have been brought forward by the mentor who received the message, the matter was discussed (in both cases at length) and the mentors replied to you with explanations. This has happened more than once.

Infractions are private because it is a private issue, it would be unfair of us to make such things available for public view. As for your statement of "transparent and accountable", here at PF the mentors are responsible for discussing, issuing and modifying infractions. As I have said if someone has a problem and PMs a mentor regarding it the matter is discussed and the user is informed of the result of this discussion.

 

[I like Serena]

The detail of the infraction has been made 'private' in my public profile. I would prefer it was made public so that people looking in can judge for themselves. I do not know why the detail of it is hidden.

I choose to believe that this is to protect your privacy.

I do not want my contribution to this thread to be about my situation, however. I am not debating the issues of my infractions. All I want is for this thread to be about asking why PF resists moving towards developing a TRANSPARENT and ACCOUNTABLE process for people to raise cases.

As I see it, you can choose how transparent it is.
The question is, whether you want it to be.

 

[FlexGunship]

Hi,

[...]

Any others find any truth in this?

W

I've got my share of infractions but no locked threads under my belt. You have two. You're posting in a physics forum, expect that spouting nonsense will get you slapped down and you're not likely to get sympathy from anyone else here.

I might get another infraction for this (which is worth it), but if you want "less bullying" try not being so stubbornly wrong as often.

Some selected reading for you: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

 

[cmb]

This is untrue, I have checked the records and both times you have been infracted your PMs to the mentors have been brought forward by the mentor who received the message, the matter was discussed (in both cases at length) and the mentors replied to you with explanations. This has happened more than once.

What, of what I said, are you declaring is untrue?

 

[S_Happens]

A quick peruse of your posts makes it pretty clear. Personally I'm surprised you've lasted this long.

 

[cmb]

I choose to believe that this is to protect your privacy.

I want it visible.

One infraction is visible, the other isn't. Please explain why this is.

 

[cmb]

A quick peruse of your posts makes it pretty clear. Personally I'm surprised you've lasted this long.

Please explain what you mean by this. This is inspecific and harrassing. I'm happy to discuss any issues you have with my posts.

I'd prefer that you note in the short time I have been here, serveral posters have offered thanks in the threads for my contributions. But if this is how you treat people here, then I can recognise I am unwelcome.

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

We won't be debating policy nor discussing infractions publicly. cmb please PM an appropriate mentor.

 

[Ryan_m_b]

What, of what I said, are you declaring is untrue?

This

I explained what I meant, and did not get a response to the point I made.

It is patently untrue. Both times you received messages in response to your complaint.

EDIT:

We won't be debating policy nor discussing infractions publicly

Noted

 

[S_Happens]

Please explain what you mean by this. This is inspecific and harrassing. I'm happy to discuss any issues you have with my posts.

It was meant for the OP. I don't know you or care to discuss the problems that you brought into another person's thread.

 

[cmb]

It was meant for the OP. I don't know you or care to discuss the problems that you brought into another person's thread.

(So sorry. I thought it was a continuation of the comments at me.)

 

[Whalstib]

Ladies and gentlemen I would like to thank our mentors for providing proof of my argument.

Evo, You did exactly what I said by editing to suit your needs! You did not publish any of my apologies, you did not bring up the blatant bigotry exhibited by one of your co mentors and you once again mis labeled my discussion as "In this thread where you tried to use a religious argument to debunk evolution." Folks I had to defend myself numerous times against this claim. This was the bullying as my ideas and sources were dismissed and I was pretty well attacked.

Ryan you were merely the ultra sensitive as you could not come to terms with the fact you kept posting the same post others did and it clearly bore no resemblance to my original post. It was you who steered the conversation into the ditch and locked it. You exhibited the style of just trying to shout down others because yiu didn't understand or were offended or it rocked you paradigm. I don't know. I do know as a mentor one would think you'd have some restraint and attempt to further the discussion not just fulfill your own agenda.

My point is mentors should be transparent to a degree and while participate freely just show some restraint and moderate instead of instigate.

Flexgunship represents the other factors. Look:

You're posting in a physics forum, expect that spouting nonsense will get you slapped down and you're not likely to get sympathy from anyone else here.

I can't find this policy listed...Who decides if it's nonsense and who does the slapping? This is a concern. This fits many of the posts I've been involved with and others I have just read. There is a contingent who will not leave it be if they disagree but have designated themselves "slappers" and make intelligent conversations on PF limited.

Absolutely stunning in just a couple of posts I was able to get three volunteers to slice their own throats with their own words and illustrate my point perfectly.

Next we will get the last words, from Ryan most likely, and the thread will be locked.

Perhaps there is something to this ESP stuff!

;D

W

 

[Greg Bernhardt]

Next we will get the last words, from Ryan most likely, and the thread will be locked.

Perhaps there is something to this ESP stuff!

Happy for you and your ESP. Thank you for your comments. I, not Ryan, will be locking this thread now that you got the information you wanted. Have a nice day.

 

[Evo]

Ladies and gentlemen I would like to thank our mentors for providing proof of my argument.

Evo, You did exactly what I said by editing to suit your needs! You did not publish any of my apologies, you did not bring up the blatant bigotry exhibited by one of your co mentors and you once again mis labeled my discussion as "In this thread where you tried to use a religious argument to debunk evolution." Folks I had to defend myself numerous times against this claim. This was the bullying as my ideas and sources were dismissed and I was pretty well attacked.

You'll notice that I posted a link to the entire thread you're complaining about.