Engineering Physics Major Considering Masters in EE -- Need help!

[JR14Watt]

Hello,

I graduated from undergrad a few years ago with a Major in Physics and minor in Electrical Engineering. I tried to get experience working on and testing circuits through my professor who studied Neutrinos, however covid caused the opportunity to go away and I graduated with no experience or internships. I have attempted to break into the engineering industry with no success. Right now I am considering going for a Masters in Electrical Engineering and I need advice on if this would be a solid decision. I could see myself possibly doing research later on down the line. Anyways, does anyone have advice on if a Masters in Electrical Engineering is a good choice considering I don’t have any hands on experience? Will this help me break into the field with a good starting point?

 

[gwnorth]

Will completing a master's in Engineering qualify you to become a professional engineer (not that that's necessary for every engineering role)?

Beyond that, will your undergraduate background be sufficient for admission to Engineering Master's programs?

 

[JR14Watt]

I could sit for my EIT right now but I don’t believe a masters in EE would speed up the 8 years of experience you need to become a PE since most Masters programs are not ABET accredited. But they may make an exception and say my experience throughout master is enough, tough to say for sure. And yes I believe I should qualify, I am in the process of checking with schools now.

 

[jasonRF]

I have been an EE in industry for 25+ years, and have worked with very few EEs who were PEs. It just is not required for most jobs.

At least when I was in EE grad school there were a number of students with physics undergraduate degrees. How a given department handles gaps in the student's undergraduate background will vary from school to school.

If the primary motivation is to become more employable, for each potential school I would look into what kind of services their career center offers and see if they publish any job placement and salary statistics. Some schools help their students more than others.

 

[bryantcl]

JR14Watt,

Couple of questions about your situation that may help guide some of the advice I give.

What country are you located in?
How long have you been out of school?
Were you employed anywhere while you were seeking employment as a EE?

 

[Beyond3D]

Hello,

I graduated from undergrad a few years ago with a Major in Physics and minor in Electrical Engineering. I tried to get experience working on and testing circuits through my professor who studied Neutrinos, however covid caused the opportunity to go away and I graduated with no experience or internships. I have attempted to break into the engineering industry with no success. Right now I am considering going for a Masters in Electrical Engineering and I need advice on if this would be a solid decision. I could see myself possibly doing research later on down the line. Anyways, does anyone have advice on if a Masters in Electrical Engineering is a good choice considering I don’t have any hands on experience? Will this help me break into the field with a good starting point?

Physicists get paid more than EEs, and you will never confuse $\pi$ and$\ e$ again. MS in Physics is my recommendation.

 

[CrysPhys]

Physicists get paid more than EEs, and you will never confuse $\pi$ and$\ e$ again. MS in Physics is my recommendation.

<<Emphasis added>> Do you have data to support that?

The OP's profile lists their country as US. Assuming that's accurate, an MS Physics (with the possible exception of some specialized terminal degrees) will typically not increase career opportunities over a BS Physics; an MS EE (assuming the OP completes the same program a BS EE would) has more value. The situation may differ outside the US (you have another thread in which you indicated that you are in Canada)..

 

[Beyond3D]

<<Emphasis added>> Do you have data to support that?

The OP's profile lists their country as US. Assuming that's accurate, an MS Physics (with the possible exception of some specialized terminal degrees) will typically not increase career opportunities over a BS Physics; an MS EE (assuming the OP completes the same program a BS EE would) has more value. The situation may differ outside the US (you have another thread in which you indicated that you are in Canada)..

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Life-Physical-and-Social-Science/Physicists-and-astronomers.htm
I'd recommend skipping the MPhys and going to physics PhD for the most $$$.

 

[CrysPhys]

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Life-Physical-and-Social-Science/Physicists-and-astronomers.htm
I'd recommend skipping the MPhys and going to physics PhD for the most $$$.

And here's the counterpart listing for EE:

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/architecture-and-engineering/electrical-and-electronics-engineers.htm

The median pay for physicists is higher than the median pay for EE. But note: For physics, "typical entry-level education" is listed as "doctoral or professional degree" (doesn't specify what "professional" degree refers to); whereas, for EE, "typical entry-level education" is listed as "bachelor's degree". So different populations are being compared.

There is insufficient data here to support your sweeping statement, "Physicists get paid more than EEs", particularly given the wide range of education levels and jobs for each (and the ranges in pay are not given).

ETA: In your own thread (https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/is-my-plan-for-education-reasonable.1081285/), you are asking for advice on your own plans for education after high school. It's a bit odd that you're so self-assured advising this OP on what's best for their career path. The OP is inquiring about a MS EE. You were the one that first recommended an MS Physics instead, and then later recommended skipping the MS Physics and going straight for a PhD Physics. Huh?

 

[gwnorth]

https://www.bls.gov/ooh/Life-Physical-and-Social-Science/Physicists-and-astronomers.htm
I'd recommend skipping the MPhys and going to physics PhD for the most $$$.

Number of Physics jobs in the US 2023 - 23,500
Projected Physics employment change 2023-2033 - +1,700
Projected yearly Physics job openings 2023-2033 - +1,600

Number of EE jobs in the US 2023 - 287,800
Projected EE employment change 2023-2033 - +26,200
Projected yearly EE job openings 2023-2033 - +19,000

So while a Physics PhD may have a higher median salary, there are more job opportunities in EE. Additionally as CrysPhys mentioned, it takes on average 7 more years to get a Physics PhD vs a EE B.Eng which can come with substantial opportunity costs. Additionally median earnings don't tell you anything about lifetime earnings. The EE will be earning more for a substantially longer period of time before a Physics PhD catches up (and I have personal experience with this as I have one kid pursuing a Physics PhD and one kid who just graduated with a B.Eng in EE). If you compare lifetime earnings, I wager that the EE will come out ahead, and especially when it comes to the amount you'd be able to save for retirement.

 

[JR14Watt]

JR14Watt,

Couple of questions about your situation that may help guide some of the advice I give.

What country are you located in?
How long have you been out of school?
Were you employed anywhere while you were seeking employment as a EE?

Hello, sorry I didn’t see this response for a while. I’m located in the US. I have been out of undergrad for 4 years now. I ended up working a sales job at a terribly predatory company for 3.5 years and now i’m doing administrative work at a solar company as I couldn’t find anything else. I overall don’t know what to do but i know it’s not this, so I thought EE could help direct me towards something more fulfilling and something I was orginally looking to get into.

 

[StatGuy2000]

Hello, sorry I didn’t see this response for a while. I’m located in the US. I have been out of undergrad for 4 years now. I ended up working a sales job at a terribly predatory company for 3.5 years and now i’m doing administrative work at a solar company as I couldn’t find anything else. I overall don’t know what to do but i know it’s not this, so I thought EE could help direct me towards something more fulfilling and something I was orginally looking to get into.

For what it's worth, let me weigh in.

The fact that you have been out of your undergraduate program for 4 years could potentially pose some barriers in being eligible to apply to a MS in EE. This may especially be the case for you, since you do not already have an undergraduate degree in that field. In spite of what some people on this forum have stated, the curriculum and requirements for an EE bachelor's degree is quite different from an equivalent degree in Physics, in Canada or the US.

I would personally look into different EE programs in colleges/universities you are interested in, and ask the registrars or advisors at those schools about the requirements for a MS for people with similar backgrounds to yourself.

There is a chance that you may have to seek a second undergraduate degree in EE, or at the very least take numerous remedial courses before being eligible to pursue the MS degree. In which case you need to think for yourself whether that time and expense is worth it for you.

 

[Choppy]

I agree with StatGuy2000's post above.

If you're not in a place where you're happy, looking for opportunities to advance out of it is ideal. I'd underscore the idea of investing time into researching potential EE master's programs... Do you have the prerequisites? How much skill remediation will you need? Are graduates going into jobs that you would like to do? Attend an open house if possible and talk to faculty and current students.

 

[CalcNerd]

My advice is to take the EIT in the next few months (after you study for it). The test gets harder for you to pass the longer you are out of school. Having passed an EIT exam will keep a lot of doors open for you. Having to wait 8 years before you take the PE after passing the EIT is not typical, especially if you pursue an MSEE. Depending upon your state board and your actual academic background you may be able to sit for the PE sooner.

Your post doesn’t lead me to believe that is really what you aspire to do. However, by taking (and passing) an EIT exam, you do keep that door open.

Electrical engineers that pursue electronics design do not need a PE. Often MSEE degreed individuals pursue research or product development and have no need for a PE license. It may prove handy in the far future if you pursue consulting on your own.

The PE license is the government’s method of protecting the public. A PE license is needed in designing for the construction/building industry. An Electrical PE would design for the electrical design for buildings, lighting for large open spaces/stadiums, and more often simpler smaller electrical layouts (mundane and not that challenging). And the follow up on either drawing up your designs yourself (using electrical engineering analysis software and often a CAD drawing package) or reviewing other’s drawings that were made from your markups. At the completion of your design, you sign and seal your work (only a PE can sign and seal engineering construction documents).

However, most MSEEs don’t need or even benefit from having a PE, except for bragging rights or possible consulting where the more letters behind your name, the more you can charge for your time.

 

[JR14Watt]

Yes thank you for your reply. I did have in mind the idea of a masters in EE leading to a career in research and like you mention the possibility of consulting. I have to make a decision as to which may be better for me. With decisions like this we never know without first trying so I will have to see what happens and what I think would be best for my personality and goals.

 

[gmax137]

I did have in mind the idea of a masters in EE leading to a career in research and like you mention the possibility of consulting.

Well let's talk about "consulting." I have seen at least two different types of work done by "consultants."

One type: the client says "We have all of the letters going back and forth between us and the regulator. I need a concise one paragraph summary of each, and a data base identifying each of the actions we promised the regulator we would take. The letters are in binders there - [points to a massive wall of shelves in a basement room] - they're in chron order going back to 1968, probably at least six or eight thousand letters." I have actually done work like this. It takes determination to actually finish, and a good understanding of the plant engineering, the local jargon, and the regulations. But it can be done by someone with a few years experience. It is grind work that the regular employees would just never have the time to finish.

Another type: the client says, "our blitzen pump keeps on failing, causing us to shut down the entire production line. We have had our best engineers on it and they have made a number of changes to the control system but the problem persists. We need you to take a fresh look and fix this thing once and for all. I'm on the hook with the plant manager and am afraid I'm going to get fired." I have done work like this, too; but not early in my career. Work like this is extremely high pressure and you have to be lucky, or much smarter / have more experience than the engineers who have worked there for years.

 

[berkeman]

Well let's talk about "consulting." I have seen at least two different types of work done by "consultants."

I dunno. The consulting work that I've done over the years has been "You are an expert in this, and we need your help getting results soon." And I was able to meet their expectations.

 

[gmax137]

I dunno. The consulting work that I've done over the years has been "You are an expert in this, and we need your help getting results soon." And I was able to meet their expectations.

Yes - my point was, don't expect to get hired to do that kind of work when you're just out of school, because at that point you're not the expert.

EDIT: I guess it depends on who the client is. In my line, the clients were always someone else's engineering department. If your client is someone without their own engineers already, then I can see how a fresh engineer could really help them out. Say for example, a business with a moldy building could really use an HVAC engineer; or someone with a mechanical product really needs a controls engineer, or...

 

[CrysPhys]

I've never worked as a consultant. But I have worked with consultants, and I have friends who have listed 'consultant' on their resumes. In the US, I've seen two uses of 'consultant'. One, as discussed above, is a nominal expert in their field: trained, experienced, ready to "hit the ground running" (a favorite expression of one of my managers). Employers often hire such consultants if there is no in-house expertise, and if the task is limited in duration.

But 'consultant' is also used for 'a temporary contract worker'. These consultants don't necessarily need to be trained experts and such positions may be available for newbies. E.g., an employer may need to fulfill a large order for devices and need to run a suite of X tests on Y devices (running these tests does not require extensive training). HR declares no additional headcount to hire additional employees. But there are operating funds to hire temporary contract workers, often through a contract house. Workers often list 'consultant' on their resume to cover periods when they do not have full-time employment.