Can I make a living playing poker with my current plan?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the feasibility of making a living playing poker, particularly focusing on live versus online poker, lifestyle implications, and strategies for success. Participants share their experiences, insights, and concerns regarding the poker profession, including the potential financial outcomes and personal sacrifices involved.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant outlines a plan to play poker part-time while attending classes, aiming for a daily profit of $100-150 by employing a tight-aggressive strategy.
  • Several participants express skepticism about the sustainability and lifestyle of grinding long hours in poker, citing the potential for burnout and dissatisfaction.
  • Another participant suggests that online poker may offer more flexibility and opportunities compared to live poker, despite the challenges of reading opponents.
  • Concerns are raised about the reliability of income from poker, with some participants questioning the participant's experience and win rates.
  • One participant shares an anecdote about a PhD holder who turned to poker due to frustrations with academia, indicating that it is possible to make a living this way.
  • Discussion includes personality traits that may be advantageous for poker players, referencing the Myers-Briggs personality types INTJ and INTP.
  • Participants emphasize the importance of tracking performance metrics and understanding variance in poker outcomes.
  • Some argue that the financial goals set may not be realistic based on the number of hands played and the nature of live poker.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the viability of making a living playing poker. There are multiple competing views regarding the lifestyle, financial reliability, and strategies for success in both live and online formats.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for careful tracking of play sessions and financial outcomes, as well as the impact of variance on perceived success. The discussion reflects a range of personal experiences and opinions, with no definitive conclusions drawn.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals considering a career in poker, those interested in the lifestyle implications of professional gaming, and players looking for insights on strategies and performance tracking may find this discussion relevant.

  • #31
russ_watters said:
My concern with online poker and no-limit poker is who you are playing against. I suspect that you get more serious poker players in those games than you would in a beach-front $1-$2 limit game and as a result the risk of losing and the swings will be larger. Due to the rake, you need to be a fair amount better than average in a game to make a long-term profit and it is easier to be better than average when the competition is lower.

So a lot depends on your ability.

Online poker and even in real life, is full of donkeys who chase cards. Just watch youtube clips of the top pros like Mattasow complain about people chasing and catching cards against them, and these guys don't play low limit games.
 
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  • #32
Well if you don't chase a flush every now and then, you're a robot who nobody will bet against. Mattasow's a trip, but he complains too much: it's called "gambling" for a reason.
 
  • #33
russ_watters said:
Well if you don't chase a flush every now and then, you're a robot who nobody will bet against. Mattasow's a trip, but he complains too much: it's called "gambling" for a reason.

Helmuth is a trip, Mattasow complains a lot, but that doesn't detract from what he says: people chase him 2 to a flush after he makes large raises in high stake games. If you want to do this for a living, get ready to have your blood boil from bad beats to donkeys (at any blind level). All I am saying is, don't make the mistake of thinking large blinds equals good players - it doesnt.
 
  • #34
Cyrus said:
Helmuth is a trip, Mattasow complains a lot, but that doesn't detract from what he says: people chase him 2 to a flush after he makes large raises in high stake games. If you want to do this for a living, get ready to have your blood boil from bad beats to donkeys (at any blind level).
Understood and agreed. At the same time, Matusow goes on tilt too easily because of bad beats. He'd be a true superstar if he could control his temper a little better.
All I am saying is, don't make the mistake of thinking large blinds equals good players - it doesnt.
Well, the thing about the WPT is for the most part, there aren't any skill-based barriers to entry, so $10k will get you a spot on the big stage. If $10k would get me to a lineup of the baseball World Series, I'd sure as hell do it (and I'm a shockingly bad baseball player). So for the WPT, I'm not sure the money is a real barrier.

But I get what you're saying - the guys at the high rollers tables aren't there because they are good, they are there because they are rich and they can. Perhaps the same principle applies all the way down. I'd be really curious to know what the real skill level distribution is like from table to table at a casino on a random day.
 
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  • #35
Cyrus said:
Online poker and even in real life, is full of donkeys who chase cards. Just watch youtube clips of the top pros like Mattasow complain about people chasing and catching cards against them, and these guys don't play low limit games.

I have only ever played small blinds with .25/.50 being the highest. I saw some people pulling in $50-$100 over a couple hours. Like you say, my biggest problem was with the donks. They would go all in on crap cards and pull an amazing hand out of their ***.
 
  • #36
russ_watters said:
Understood and agreed. At the same time, Mattasow goes on tilt too easily because of bad beats. He'd be a true superstar if he could control his temper a little better.

You're not confusing him with Hellmuth are you? From what I have seen Mattesow may ***** a bit, even shout, but when he's doing bad he usually shuts up and focuses. Like I said earlier, I think he uses table talk more tactically. He goes on and on to distract the other players. Hellmuth is the one who just can't control himself, from what I have seen anyway.
 
  • #37
russ_watters said:
But I get what you're saying - the guys at the high rollers tables aren't there because they are good, they are there because they are rich and they can. Perhaps the same principle applies all the way down. I'd be really curious to know what the real skill level distribution is like from table to table at a casino on a random day.

I meant to imply non-tournament games in my reply. My dad likes to play 20/40 pot limit Hi-Lo Omaha. He's really good at it, but he says people still chase left and right.

Too many people think $1/2 NL holdem is slow paced and cheap because the blinds are small,, but fail to realize you need to sit down with a few hundred bucks in chips. On top of that, people will easily get a AK or KJ, or JJ, and push all in like they won the lotto.
 
  • #38
TheStatutoryApe said:
You're not confusing him with Hellmuth are you? From what I have seen Mattesow may ***** a bit, even shout, but when he's doing bad he usually shuts up and focuses. Like I said earlier, I think he uses table talk more tactically. He goes on and on to distract the other players. Hellmuth is the one who just can't control himself, from what I have seen anyway.
He does use his mouth and his presence to go after other players, but he's just as famous for crashing and burning. From the first paragraph of his wiki:
Michael B. Matusow (born April 30, 1968 in Los Angeles, California) is an American professional poker player, residing in Henderson, Nevada. Matusow's nickname of "The Mouth" reflects his reputation for trash-talking at the poker table. He is also known for sometimes ruining hours or days of good play with a single spectacular misjudgment, (known as a "Mike Matusow Blow-up" or "Mike Matusow Meltdown").
 
  • #39
Cyrus said:
I meant to imply non-tournament games in my reply. My dad likes to play 20/40 pot limit Hi-Lo Omaha. He's really good at it, but he says people still chase left and right.

People chase a lot more at pot limit Omaha hi-lo since they have way more draws than hold'em (4 cards + low draws). As a result it is a higher variance game since everyone gets it in much lighter and the game gets effectively bigger. However I can image a good players edge vs the fish can be huge, so it is probably a good idea for OP to start playing pot limit Omaha hi (PLO) as this game is getting very popular and will be full of fish.

Also at all the Mike Matusow and Phil Hellmuth comments; I'd like to say that neither are particularly good at the game anymore, they were considered good at a time where the games were extremely bad.
 
  • #40
TheStatutoryApe said:
I have only ever played small blinds with .25/.50 being the highest. I saw some people pulling in $50-$100 over a couple hours. Like you say, my biggest problem was with the donks. They would go all in on crap cards and pull an amazing hand out of their ***.

If you have a problem with your opponents playing incorrectly, then you're a bad poker player. The only way to beat the rake in poker is if your opponents are making those mistakes. If you're angry that they're offering you money, either quit poker or start sitting at my tables so I can take your money. You don't seem to want it.
 
  • #41
Jack21222 said:
If you have a problem with your opponents playing incorrectly, then you're a bad poker player. The only way to beat the rake in poker is if your opponents are making those mistakes. If you're angry that they're offering you money, either quit poker or start sitting at my tables so I can take your money. You don't seem to want it.

I never said that I was a good poker player. ;-p
I was starting to better my game but now I haven't played in about a year.
 
  • #42
Cyrus said:
Helmuth is a trip, Mattasow complains a lot, but that doesn't detract from what he says: people chase him 2 to a flush after he makes large raises in high stake games. If you want to do this for a living, get ready to have your blood boil from bad beats to donkeys (at any blind level). All I am saying is, don't make the mistake of thinking large blinds equals good players - it doesnt.

It doesn't, but it makes sense to occasionally chase something wild, especially if there are a lot of players. It really helps your table image, win or lose. And if you win, you're going to win big.
 
  • #43
Professional poker is all about endurance. The question isn't are you good; the question is you can play at that level consistently for hours and hours, days on end, on hot streaks or cold ones?
 

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