News Portlandia has struck again: fluoride in water

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The recent vote in Portland, Oregon, to fluoridate the city's drinking water has failed, with approximately 60% of voters opposing the measure. Mayor Charlie Hales, who supported the initiative, expressed disappointment but accepted the outcome. The opposition was largely driven by environmentalists and groups like Clean Water Portland, who argued against adding fluoride to the water supply, citing concerns over health risks and the principle of voluntary medication. Some participants in the discussion questioned the necessity of fluoridation in a developed country like the U.S., especially given the availability of fluoride in toothpaste and the increasing consumption of bottled water. The conversation also touched on broader themes of public trust in government agencies, the perceived quality of Portland's water, and the impact of local political dynamics on public health decisions. Many expressed skepticism about the motives behind the fluoride campaign and the potential financial implications of fluoridation for residents. Overall, the debate reflects a complex intersection of health, environmental concerns, and local governance in Portland.
  • #61
Naty1 said:
Actually quite a lot is CLAIMED.

Christie Todd Whitman when heading the EPA also told NYC first responders at the World Trade Center

'All is well amid all the dust and debris"...

thousands now know the truth, but too late.

And West Virginia is telling many residents right now "ok to drink tap water again' despite independent lab results to the contrary.

On balance, not being blessed with perfect teeth, I think fluoride IS beneficial.

Ah, but we're a *science* forum. I expect most PFers will use critical thinking and vet their information sources when researching a "hot" topic such as water fluoridation, and not just blindly follow what is "claimed".

Btw, the CDC does not make a habit of simply "claiming" things. If you think it does, you will need to back up what you say - otherwise, I stand by the link in my last post.
 
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  • #62
hmmm...

Toothpaste overdose
...
Outlook (Prognosis)
Patients who swallow a very large amount of fluoride toothpaste and survive 48 hours usually recover. See also: Fluoride overdose

So if you don't survive those 48 hours, you may not recover?

hmmm...


Fluoride overdose
...
Fluoride may also be found in other household items, including

Etching cream
Roach powders

Just what I want in my water. Stuff that etches glass, and cockroach poison.

We'll just keep voting it down. I would like to thank all of you all who are concerned about my teeth, but I'd rather the government kept out of my [STRIKE]uterus[/STRIKE] drinking water.


ps. Floss daily, brush at least twice a day, and do not swallow the toothpaste.
 
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  • #63
First it's fluoride in the water next it's a 'Trader Joe's' in a neighborhood. :eek:

http://news.yahoo.com/trader-joe-39-drops-black-neighborhood-store-plan-224732374.html

PORTLAND, Ore. (AP) — The Trader Joe's grocery-store chain has dropped a plan to open a new store in the heart of the city's historically African-American neighborhood after activists said the development would price black residents out of the area.
...
It sent the city a letter saying it would "remain opposed to any development in N/NE Portland that does not primarily benefit the Black community." It said the grocery-store development would "increase the desirability of the neighborhood," for "non-oppressed populations."
 
  • #64
Portland water in the news again. :eek:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2014...rstechnica/index+(Ars+Technica+-+All+content)

The city of Portland, OR will empty a 38-million gallon reservoir after a teenager allegedly urinated in it, according to the Associated Press. It's the second time in three years that Portland is flushing its Mount Tabor reservoir after a urine-related incident.

The reservoir is open-air and sits exposed to all of nature, leading many parties to question how necessary a draining would be, or how polluted 38 million gallons of water can really be by a single man's urine.
 
  • #66
nsaspook said:
Portland water in the news again. :eek:
http://arstechnica.com/science/2014...rstechnica/index+(Ars+Technica+-+All+content)

I kind of laughed at the whole thing, knowing how to google, and finding out a few facts, over the last two days:

Me on Facebook said:
Excellent!
Opinion #1: Everyone living in Portland, who thinks this is stupid, should move to Texas.
Fact #1: Portlanders use almost twice that amount of water, DAILY!.
Fact #2: The Bull Run river is right now discharging over twice that amount each day.
Fact #3: The Bull Run reservoir, has a capacity of 10 billion useable gallons, or 263 times what we dumped out.
Fact #4: They drain the city reservoirs twice a year to make sure there are no dead cows at the bottom. ... Ok. I made up the part about the dead cows. :-p

Fact #5: The Bull Run watershed, the source of all Portland's drinking water, collects 240 billion gallons of water a year.
Fact #6: Portlanders only consume 20 billion gallons of water per year.
Fact #7: We dump 220 billion gallons of excess water into our river, because we have too much.
Fact #8: Portland dumps 6000 times more water into our river than was flushed from the reservoir.
Fact #9: I like math, and science, and Portland.
Opinion #2: Ya all can stay out of our stoopid city.

ps. Some of my numbers may appear a bit off, as the USGS sight had the effluent at only 133 cfs vs the mean of 744 cfs for this time of year. They may be filling the bowl, for a power flush. :-p
 
  • #67
OmCheeto said:
That reminds me.

If anyone should come visit, the water is fine.
...

Ok, maybe not today. :redface:

Over a half million people in Oregon's largest city told to boil tap water after city finds bacteria in reservoirs

I've lived here for a tad over 55 years, and have never been told to boil my water before.

I first heard the news today, while standing in line at work, waiting for my stir fry. A maintenance man, had just placed a "Do not drink the pop!" sign on one of the two soda dispensers. There seemed to be some confusion, as he hadn't put a sign on the second dispenser, and people were filling up cups, and getting ice, only to have a cafeteria staff person tell them they had to dump it out. One of the chefs had to explain to the maintenance man, that both machines used city water, to make soda pop. They eventually got the second sign up, and I eventually got my stir fry.

When I got to the checkout line, I was greeted by my new Ethiopian friend. She had the biggest smile I had ever seen on her face, and I could tell she was holding back laughter. She told me, something to the effect, that they never boiled their water, even though it was probably 100 times worse than what was coming out of our faucets today. I smiled back, and mentioned something about "1st world problems", with a universally understood, roll of the eyes.

ps. My sister from flame shredded San Marcos flew in on Tuesday, and called me a few hour before I got off work today, to see if I wanted to party. She apparently hadn't paid attention, and thought I was retiring today. Um... No.

While she was waiting, she bought 3 flats of bottled water, as she is staying at my brothers house on the other side of town, and thought they might need it. Unfortunately, my brother lives outside the "tainted water" area, and his water is fine.

In conclusion, I got a free flat of bottled water.

Yay! I can brush my teeth in the morning. :smile:

pps. The following still applies though:

...please, wear gloves, if you have to touch the locals.
 
  • #68
What the frick is a "flat of bottled water"? Do Portlandians think they are British, but don't actually know what a "flat" is?

Anyway, I'm sure there is some poetic justice somewhere in that story -- I can't seem to find it right now, but I'm choosing to enjoy it anyway.
 
  • #69
My waters from a well so no problems here. I wonder that kind of critter they find when they drain Mt. Tabor again. I expect it be be extra busy at the bars tonight with people needing liquid refreshment. :-p

http://ww1.hdnux.com/photos/30/15/53/6347488/3/628x471.jpg
 
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  • #70
russ_watters said:
What the frick is a "flat of bottled water"? Do Portlandians think they are British, but don't actually know what a "flat" is?
It's quite possible that I used the wrong term, though the "flat" holding the bottled water looks suspiciously like the "flat"s we used to harvest berrys with.

How to pick strawberries

...strawberry flat (that's a shallow waxed cardboard box)

flatflag_1s.jpe

Anyway, I'm sure there is some poetic justice somewhere in that story -- I can't seem to find it right now, but I'm choosing to enjoy it anyway.

Karmic justice, more like.

Om: We've got the best water in the world!
Karma comes along and poops in his reservoir.
Om: Oh ****!

ps. My sister and I met at the Old Spaghetti Factory after I got off work. The waiter apologized that he couldn't serve us any water. I mentioned that I was a fan of W.C. Fields, and didn't drink water, so it was no big deal.

pps. On a semi-sciency side-note, I just checked the USGS site, and it appears they're holding back the water in the source reservoir again. I also noticed that the maximum overflow was back on Dec. 22, 1964. If the flow had kept up all day at that rate, it would have been equivalent to ~16 billion gallons, only 4 billion gallons short of our current annual usage. I thought that was interesting.

ppps. On a super-cool totally-sciency side-note: Last night I put the water bottles in my freezer. A few moments ago, I went to check on them. Half of the bottles were frozen, and half of the bottles were not. I picked one of the bottles up, thinking the freezer was defective, and the following happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=97qD2Bzkb48​

I'm pretty sure I've seen this before on YouTube, but had never seen it in real life. (I don't buy bottled water).

Freakin' awesome!
 
  • #71
Newcomer to the Portland area (actually about to move up to Vantucket, as I've heard it called), but I routinely work in downtown Portland with swimming pools.

Please help me understand. Locals do not want fluoride in the drinking water, but adding ammonia and chlorine to the water supply-- to intentionally create chloramines-- is okay?

I constantly have to chemically adjust my swimming pools because the supply water is three times the legal swimming pool limit for chloramines. (not always, it's apparently just when someone pee's in the reservoir)

Fine to drink, not okay to swim in. I'm thinking Vancouver was a wise decision.

Ammonia is added in a process called chloramination to ensure that water throughout the system meets federal and state drinking water regulations. Without ammonia the chlorine would evaporate by the end of the supply line..
https://www.portlandoregon.gov/water/48904
 
  • #72
MacLaddy said:
...Locals do not want fluoride in the drinking water
Because we read the news?

Fluoride debate: Study looked at fluoride vs. non-fluoride in Portland area

Last week, the Problem Solvers analyzed the raw data from OHA’s 2012 Smile Survey. Our analysis revealed little difference between the cavity rates of kids in fluoridated schools versus non-fluoridated schools:

53.7% of the kids in the non-fluoridated areas had one or more cavities
52.03% of kids in fluoridated areas had one or more cavities
47.81% of kids in fluoride-free Portland water district had one or more cavities



, but adding ammonia and chlorine to the water supply-- to intentionally create chloramines-- is okay?
Per wiki, it's required by the EPA.

Chloramination

The EPA regulations give two choices for disinfectant residual — chlorine or chloramine. Many major water agencies are changing to chloramine to better meet current and anticipated federal drinking water regulations and to protect the public health.


I constantly have to chemically adjust my swimming pools because the supply water is three times the legal swimming pool limit for chloramines. (not always, it's apparently just when someone pee's in the reservoir)
From what I just read, I doubt this has anything to do with the supply water. And you are correct, it is just when someone pees in the pool:

Busting a Chlorine Swimming Pool Urban Myth
Chris Wiant, PhD
...
What actually causes the distinctive, irritating smell around swimming pools is not chlorine–that’s an urban myth–but volatile substances known as chloramines. Chloramines form in pool water when chlorine combines with contaminants brought into the pool by swimmers. Think urine, perspiration, body oils and cosmetics. The truth is that cleaner swimming, not less chlorine, can help reduce the chloramine irritants that cause “swimmer red eye” and itchy skin. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s swimmer hygiene tips recommend swimmers shower with soap before entering the pool (almost 70% of the survey respondents said they don’t do this routinely) and stop peeing in the pool.

Fine to drink
You'll have to ask the people in Pennsylvania about that.

How can we be sure that chloramination is safe?

For nearly 90 years, water systems across the United States and Canada have used chloramine without any ill effects. Every day, one in five Americans receive drinking water treated with chloramine, including residents in Washington, D.C., San Francisco, Boston, Dallas, Indianapolis, Denver and Miami. Here in Pennsylvania, four million people, including people in York, Lebanon and Philadelphia, have been using tap water treated with chloramine for decades. That’s one out of every three people in Pennsylvania. In addition, Pennsylvania American Water has years of experience providing chloraminated water in community water systems, including Norristown, Clarion, Yardley, Butler, Ellwood City, Connellsville and Mechanicsburg.
 
  • #73
I hope they have plenty of chlorine in this Fairview Oregon residents pool, took this picture not too far from my house.
 

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  • #74
OmCheeto said:
...WATER NAZI'S​


I thought everyone knew that it's the Communists who want to fluoridate the water. :confused:

General Jack D. Ripper: You know when fluoridation first began?

Group Capt. Lionel Mandrake: I... no, no. I don't, Jack.

Ripper: Nineteen hundred and forty-six. 1946, Mandrake. How does that coincide with your post-war Commie conspiracy, huh? It's incredibly obvious, isn't it? A foreign substance is introduced into our precious bodily fluids without the knowledge of the individual. Certainly without any choice. That's the way your hard-core Commie works.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/quotes
 
  • #75
jtbell said:
I thought everyone knew that it's the Communists who want to fluoridate the water. :confused:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0057012/quotes
You are of course correct. My apologies.

OmCheeto correcting OmCheeto said:
...

"You will not collect the rainwater, as it is ours.
And then you will pay for fluoride, and you will drink our water".

...STINKIN' COMMIE *** *****[1]​


...




[1] As a child, I used to hear the phrase: "Stinkin' Commie Rat Finks!". To this day, I do not know what a "Rat Fink" is, but I'm sure it must be something horrible.
 
  • #76
  • #77
AlephZero said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rat_Fink

hmmm... Wiki is fine for some things, but sometimes their references are usually more informative than their content:

References
The term fink was originally underworld slang for an informer. It derives from the German word for "finch" -- i.e. one who "sings" -- and is comparable to a "stool pigeon". A ratfink is an intensified version of a "fink. By the time Roth used this name for a character, the term had started to pass into more general usage.

Very informative. About 25 years ago, I ran into some rude Russian kids. I had just finished a year of studying their language at university, and I told them; "Ja znaio gdyay tee rabotee-et, ee ja znaio gdyay tee zsheevyot, ee ja znaio gdyay vasch tetee".

Which, after all these years, I think means; "I know where you work, I know where you live, and I know where your children are".

They were not rude to me after I said it, so I think I got at least a few of the words correct.

ps. Oldster Americans have a view that the Soviet Union was a nation of snitches.

pps. We need to get back to bashing Portlandia... Has anyone seen the video of the naked guy running down the street next to a strip-mall, pulling his pants on, screaming; "That hoe stole my car!"? It was filmed just a few days ago, about a mile from where I grew up.

ppps. How can a garden tool steal a car? :redface:
 
  • #78
Bashing Portlandia.

OK how about this: About a month ago my Portlandia daughter called and said she needed to borrow $4.000.

"Oh so you are finally going to buy a house", I said. "No our landlord is selling this house and we need $4,000 for the deposit to rent another house", she replied.

"WOW you must be going to rent one of those big houses high on a hill west of the Willamette river", says I.

"No, no daddy we are going to rent an 840 square foot two bedroom craftsman built in 1914 on the close in NE side" she declared.

"Why don't your move across the Columbia river to Vancouver and get twice the house for half the money and why do you need $4,000"? I queried a bit gruffly.

"Because this one has a bus stop just down on the corner and it has a full basement" she said softly, along with a: "calm down daddy". She continued: "And the money is for the first and last months rent plus a security deposit", she said in a more begging tone.

"Well I suppose everyone in Portland should live in an old two bedroom house with a full basement and have a bus stop on the corner. And I realize that there is some slight chance that you may move out of state and take that cracker box with you" I growled.

"Dad, dad can I talk to mom".
 
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  • #79
OmCheeto said:
pps. We need to get back to bashing Portlandia... Has anyone seen the video of the naked guy running down the street next to a strip-mall, pulling his pants on, screaming; "That hoe stole my car!"? It was filmed just a few days ago, about a mile from where I grew up.

Haven't seen that one but we do have this 'water' related item.
http://www.kptv.com/story/26195152/police-naked-man-touching-himself-falls-in-river-rescued-arrested