Postmodernists: proof of points of triviality and sophistry

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of postmodernism in literary criticism, specifically referencing Charles Murray's critique of postmodernists as using complex language to make trivial arguments. Participants explore who these postmodernists are, their works, and the implications of their writing style.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses interest in the postmodernists mentioned by Charles Murray and seeks names and works of these authors.
  • Another participant suggests Michel Foucault as a postmodernist but questions his relevance to literary criticism.
  • A different participant recalls Foucault's works as being easy to read, thus challenging his inclusion as an example of convoluted postmodern writing.
  • There is a reference to Alan Sokal's hoax in "Social Text," indicating a significant event related to postmodernism that some participants may not be familiar with.
  • One participant admits to not knowing about Alan Sokal or the "Social Text" incident, highlighting a gap in knowledge regarding postmodernism's critiques.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on which authors qualify as postmodernists in literary criticism or the validity of their writing styles. Multiple competing views regarding Foucault's relevance and the significance of the Sokal affair remain present.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and boundaries of postmodernism in literary criticism, as well as the implications of specific examples like Foucault and Sokal.

bluemoonKY
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In Charles Murray's book Real Smart: Four Simple Truths For Bringing America's Schools Back To Reality, Murray writes about the postmodernists in literary criticism. His description really gets my interest. I think it would be interesting and perhaps amusing (I have a strange sense of humor) to me to read the work of the postmodernists in literary criticism that Murray is referring to. I will include the first few sentences before the mention of the postmodernists in literary criticism to provide a little bit of context, and I will put the part I'm referring to in boldface. Here is the excerpt:
"The second thing we have going for us is that professors are deeply motivated to show their peers how smart they are--exhibiting smartness is the only way to score points that count in academia. The way to do that is to say smart things about difficult problems in their fields. For the last few decades, intellectual fashion has made it possible for professors to score points by being tricky-smart. The postmodernists in literary criticism are an excellent example, using impenetrable vocabulary to make convoluted arguments in proof of points of a triviality and sophistry that would excite the envy of a medieval theologian." Who are the postmodernists in literary criticism? I mean, what are the names of some of these postmodernists in literary criticism? How can I find their work? What are some examples of books in which postmodernists in literary criticism use impenetrable vocabulary to make convoluted arguments in proof of points of triviality and sophistry that would excite the envy of a medieval theologian?
 
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There's Foucalt, but I don't know that he does literary criticism.
 
I've read a few of Foucault's book (some 20 years ago), and as far as I remember they were actually very easy to read. Hence, I don't think he would be a good example.
 
bluemoonKY said:
In Charles Murray's book Real Smart: Four Simple Truths For Bringing America's Schools Back To Reality, Murray writes about the postmodernists in literary criticism. His description really gets my interest. I think it would be interesting and perhaps amusing (I have a strange sense of humor) to me to read the work of the postmodernists in literary criticism that Murray is referring to. I will include the first few sentences before the mention of the postmodernists in literary criticism to provide a little bit of context, and I will put the part I'm referring to in boldface. Here is the excerpt:
"The second thing we have going for us is that professors are deeply motivated to show their peers how smart they are--exhibiting smartness is the only way to score points that count in academia. The way to do that is to say smart things about difficult problems in their fields. For the last few decades, intellectual fashion has made it possible for professors to score points by being tricky-smart. The postmodernists in literary criticism are an excellent example, using impenetrable vocabulary to make convoluted arguments in proof of points of a triviality and sophistry that would excite the envy of a medieval theologian." Who are the postmodernists in literary criticism? I mean, what are the names of some of these postmodernists in literary criticism? How can I find their work? What are some examples of books in which postmodernists in literary criticism use impenetrable vocabulary to make convoluted arguments in proof of points of triviality and sophistry that would excite the envy of a medieval theologian?

Did you miss the whole debacle surrounding Alan Sokal's hoax in "Social Text"?

Zz.
 
ZapperZ said:
Did you miss the whole debacle surrounding Alan Sokal's hoax in "Social Text"?

Zz.

ZapperZ, yes, I did miss it. I've never heard of Alan Sokal or "Social Text".
 

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