Probability of arranging identical objects

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the probability of arranging identical letters, specifically focusing on the arrangement of the letters in the word containing two N's and two U's among others. Participants explore different methods of counting arrangements and the implications of distinguishing identical objects.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant calculates the total arrangements of the letters as 1260 and proposes two different probabilities for having an N at each end, depending on whether the N's are considered identical or distinct.
  • Another participant suggests that distinguishing the N's and U's by case (e.g., N n U u A V T) could clarify the counting method, leading to a different probability calculation.
  • A third participant presents a simpler approach by calculating the probability of the first letter being N and the last letter being N, resulting in a probability of 1/21.
  • A later reply notes that the same probability calculation applies to any two chosen positions for the N's, indicating a broader application of the reasoning presented.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether the identical letters should be treated as distinct or not, leading to multiple competing methods of calculating the probability. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to take.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the distinction of identical letters, which affects the probability calculations. The scope of the discussion is also limited to the specific arrangement of the letters in question.

MeesaWorldWide
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TL;DR
If all the letters of the word NUNAVUT are randomly rearranged, what is the probability that there will be an N at each end?
Total ways to arrange the 7 letters: 7! / (2! x 2!) = 1260

Ways to have an N at each end: N _ _ _ _ _ N
There are 5 other letters in the middle, and two of them repeat (U), so the middle 5 are found by 5! / 2! = 60

Now, here is where I am unsure what to do. Since the N's are identical, do we distinguish between them? If we switched both the N's, there is still an N at either end, but would that be considered a separate case? If so, we do 60 x 2 = 120.
Then the probability of an N being at each end is 120 / 1260 = 0.095

If not, then the probability is simply 60 / 1260 = 0.048

Any insight here would be appreciated. 0.095 seems a bit high to me, but not treating N _ _ _ _ _ N and N _ _ _ _ _ N as different cases also makes sense...
 
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The word has letters
N N
U U
A
V
T
It is not clear two N and two U are distinguished or not in our count. If we distinguish two N and two U, for an exaple by capital and lower case
N n U u A V T

I think the rule to count the cases should be shared for the investigation.

As for N n U u A V T rule, number of all the cases : 7!
N is at one edge and n is at another edge : 5! x 2

So the probality is 1/21
 
Last edited:
There's no need for counting in this case. The probability that the first letter is N is ##\frac 2 7##. And, the probability that the last letter is N, given the first letter is N, is ##\frac 1 6##. The probability of both is the product of these, hence ##\frac 1 {21}##.
 
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PS note that calculation applies to any two chosen positions for the N's. The probability that the first two letters are both N is the same, by the same calculation. Likewise the first and third letters; or the third and sixth etc.
 

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