Proving (a weaker form of) Bertrand's postulate

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving a weaker form of Bertrand's postulate, which states that for every n > 1, there exists at least one prime p such that n < p < 2n. Participants explore various proof strategies and challenge each other's reasoning, particularly focusing on the assumptions and implications of their arguments.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a proof involving the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic and proposes a method to find a prime between n and 2n based on the prime factorization of n.
  • Another participant questions the validity of the proof, specifically pointing out that if K = 2n, it does not satisfy the strict inequality required by Bertrand's postulate.
  • Concerns are raised about the assumption that a prime M exists that is not a factor of n, with one participant suggesting that for large n, M may not exist.
  • Further challenges are made regarding the divisibility of K by smaller primes, indicating that the reasoning does not account for all possibilities.
  • One participant suggests a specific case where n is the product of all primes less than or equal to k, arguing that M need not exist in that scenario.
  • Another participant counters this claim by providing an example where there are indeed primes smaller than n.
  • A mention is made of Erdős having an elegant proof of the theorem, indicating that there are established proofs that may differ from the current discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of M and the validity of the proposed proof. There is no consensus on the correctness of the proof or the assumptions made, leading to an unresolved discussion.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in the proof related to assumptions about the existence of primes and the implications of divisibility, but these remain unresolved within the discussion.

stevenytc
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It is known that for every n > 1 there is always at least one prime p such that n < p < 2n.

The Bertrand's theorem's proof I read is quite involved. I've thought of another way to prove it but I think it's too simple to be correct. Can anyone please point out my mistakes?

below, Fundamental Theorem means the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic

Proof:
#
1) for any n > 1, n can be expressed as a product of prime factors (Fundamental Theorem)
2) Let PF[n] be a set containing all prime numbers that appear in the prime factorization of n.
e.g. PF[6] = {2,3}
3) obviously, if x is in PF[n] then x ≤ n.
4) for all prime numbers that are smaller than n, we look for one that is not in PF[n], if it exists, let it be M.

for M exists:
5a) consider K = n + M, K ≤ 2n (from 4)
6a) now, K is not divisible by any prime smaller than n, since for any prime that divides n, it does not divide M, and M does not divide n. (from 4)
7a) but K has a prime factorization (Fundamental Theorem)
8a) hence there must be a prime in the range [n, 2n]

for M not exists:
5b) consider K' = n+1, K ≤ 2n (assumption, n>1)
6b) now, K is not divisible by any prime smaller than n, since for any prime that divides n, it does not divide 1.
7b) but K has a prime factorization (Fundamental Theorem)
8b) hence there must be a prime in the range [n, 2n]

This proof seems alright to me, but after all I'm just an amateur. I would be grateful if anyone could point out the insufficiency of this proof so that I can learn from my mistakes.

Thanks.
 
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stevenytc said:
It is known that for every n > 1 there is always at least one prime p such that n < p < 2n.

The Bertrand's theorem's proof I read is quite involved. I've thought of another way to prove it but I think it's too simple to be correct. Can anyone please point out my mistakes?

below, Fundamental Theorem means the Fundamental Theorem of Arithmetic

Proof:
#
1) for any n > 1, n can be expressed as a product of prime factors (Fundamental Theorem)
2) Let PF[n] be a set containing all prime numbers that appear in the prime factorization of n.
e.g. PF[6] = {2,3}
3) obviously, if x is in PF[n] then x ≤ n.
4) for all prime numbers that are smaller than n, we look for one that is not in PF[n], if it exists, let it be M.

I think it's not hard to show that M will always exist. For n somewhat large.

for M exists:
5a) consider K = n + M, K ≤ 2n (from 4)

Problem: What if K=2n?? Then you indeed found a prime in [n,2n], but a prime that equals n. Bertrand's postulate says that it must be STRICTLY larger than n!

6a) now, K is not divisible by any prime smaller than n, since for any prime that divides n, it does not divide M, and M does not divide n. (from 4)

This is not true. Take n=8, take M=7. Then K=15 is divisible by 5 and 3 which are both smaller than n.
 
ok, I understand now, thanks!
 
micromass said:
I think it's not hard to show that M will always exist. For n somewhat large.
For any k\geq 2 choose n to be the product of all prime numbers \leq k. Then \{p\in\mathbb{P} : p &lt; n, p \not |n \}=\emptyset. So M need not exist, if I'm not mistaken.
 
stevenytc said:
for M exists:
5a) consider K = n + M, K ≤ 2n (from 4)
6a) now, K is not divisible by any prime smaller than n, since for any prime that divides n, it does not divide M, and M does not divide n. (from 4)
7a) but K has a prime factorization (Fundamental Theorem)
8a) hence there must be a prime in the range [n, 2n]
.
The problem here is, that you use the fact that if p|(n+M) \text{ and } p|n \Rightarrow p|M. But this doesn't cover all the possibilities, namely if p\not|n \text{ and } p\not|M \text{ but } p|(n+M), as micromass pointed out.
 
TheFurryGoat said:
For any k\geq 2 choose n to be the product of all prime numbers \leq k. Then \{p\in\mathbb{P} : p &lt; n, p \not |n \}=\emptyset. So M need not exist, if I'm not mistaken.

Not true. Take k=10. Then n=2*3*5*7=210. There are a lot of primes smaller than 210.
 
micromass said:
Not true. Take k=10. Then n=2*3*5*7=210. There are a lot of primes smaller than 210.
woops, sorry, got mixed up with my thoughts, you're right.
 
Erdos has a very elegant proof of this theorem.
 

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