Quantum Vacuum and Quantum Foam

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the relationship between quantum vacuum (QV) and quantum foam (QF), focusing on their mathematical connections and implications in theoretical physics. Participants examine concepts such as zero-point energy (ZPE), virtual particles, and the nature of spacetime at Planck scales, while considering the effects and models associated with these phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that QV is characterized by ZPE and is devoid of matter, while QF involves fluctuations in spacetime at high energies.
  • Others argue about the directionality of the relationship, suggesting that QF may be the basis from which QV can be understood.
  • A participant notes that quantum foam is associated with virtual particles, referencing Feynman diagrams to illustrate this connection.
  • There is a suggestion that quantum foam could explain additional energy beyond ZPE, as it represents quantized spacetime at Planck scales.
  • One participant expresses skepticism about the use of the term "perceive" in relation to quantum foam and quantum vacuum, highlighting that they are different models with distinct effects.
  • Concerns are raised about the lack of experimental evidence for probing quantum foam effects, leading to the conclusion that the relationship between QV and QF is not well understood.
  • Participants discuss the spontaneous appearance of virtual particles from a ZPE field, with one noting that this process occurs naturally without an apparent trigger.
  • Another participant questions the logic of spontaneity and its relation to action-reaction principles, emphasizing that quantum mechanics allows for effects without clear causes.
  • There is a discussion about various models of vacuum, with some suggesting that they represent different ways of conceptualizing the same underlying vacuum in nature.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between quantum vacuum and quantum foam, with no consensus reached on how they are mathematically or conceptually connected. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of these models and their experimental validation.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge limitations in understanding the physical processes that trigger virtual particles and the nature of different vacuum models. There is a recognition that existing models may not fully capture the complexities of quantum phenomena.

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How are the two related mathematically ie
QV is SpaceTime devoid of matter and has Zero Point Energy on one hand
QF on the other hand at PlanckScales SpaceTime fluctuates at high energies when probed

Can you get Quantum Vacuum when probing Quantum Foam?
 
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The other way around.
 
Ok Simon thanks, if QV is represented by ZPE lowest ground state, then how do you get the high energies at QV by probing it at QF scales
 
The foam is virtual particles - look at the feynman diagram for a vacuum.
 
Ok so we perceive Quantum Foam as Quantised SpaceTime at Planck Scales that spawns virtual particles hence explaining why we have additional energy over and above ZPE
 
Not sure that "perceive" is a good term here.
The "quantum vacuum" and "quantum foam" are different models designed to describe different effects.
I don't think we have experiments that probe quantum foam effects. Well, not unambiguously.
So the simple answer to your questions in post #1 becomes "nobody knows".
 
Ok thanks, still would like to research this area, as I would like to understand the relationship or even an approach to the subject area, any good starting points would be appreciated

Ie what physical process triggers virtual particles to appear out of a ZPE field

I'm already aware of Casimir, but that is not at Quantum Vacuum
 
Ie what physical process triggers virtual particles to appear out of a ZPE field
It's spontaneous... happens by itself.
 
Indeed, every action has a reaction
If Spontaneity is the reaction what is inducing it ... Will dig further into this ...

Thoughts anybody is there a certain type of vacuum that is yet to be explored

Given that we already have

Classical Vacuum
QED Vacuum
QCD Vacuum
LQG Vacuum
 
  • #10
Indeed, every action has a reaction
If Spontaneity is the reaction what is inducing it
There are some issues with your logic there:
Even if every action has a reaction, not every reaction has an action. In QM it is fine to have effects without causes...

Even if every reaction has an action, "spontineity" is not a reaction.

Note: logic, by itself, cannot lead to synthetic truths. The truth of a synthetic statement cannot be known a-priori: you have to go look. When we look, things often turn out different.

i.e.
Action-reaction is Newtonian physics and only works on average.

You have listed a bunch of different models.
They are not different types of vacuum but different ways of talking about the one kind of vacuum in Nature.
It's just maths. You can come up with any kind of model for a vacuum you like and then say, "This is an unexplored vacuum!" and you'd be right most of the time. There are infinite possible models for things. The trick is not so much coming up with models, they are easy, the trick is to come up with one that is useful.
 
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