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Seeing the past future and possible in an image.

  1. Mar 29, 2008 #1
    This is my first post in this forum and glad to be a member.
    Since from the DSP lessons in university, i am having this strange problem that i havent found an answer. As I cannot progress and couldnt find any theories regarding to this, i want to share this problem with you guys.

    This problem is about a very simple thing, digital image.
    As you all know digital images are created from pixels, and the values of the pixels in color defines (how we view) the image (on paper or on screen).
    A pixel matrix defines the size of the image.

    I am sure that most of you guys played tic tac toe. In the most simple version of this game there are 3 rows and 3 columns. And a cross or a circle is put in the forming boxes.

    I want to take this games as a starting point to my problem. In this game all boxes and either be cross or circle, from a DSP perspective forms a 1 bit image at the end (when all boxes are full). A BW image (lets say white is cross and black is circle).

    As there are 9 boxes (3x3) and there are 2 possiblities for each box (either black of white). There are 2 to the power of 9 (512) possible images (combinatons) that can be created from a 3x3 matrix (9 pixel image).

    When we look at all the images we see all the possiblities of tic tac toe game. That is 512. 512 images arepossbile. ( I know that most of these are not possible in a real game).

    Here comes the main problem.

    Lets make this matrix an everyday one. 1000x1000 pixel 1Mp camera image.

    When we form this matrix, and assuming we are using tictactoe as a basis (1bit Image BW) we have a 1 megapixel BW image.

    Hmm now the strange thing comes. What can i shoot with a 1 MP BW camera? Everything that i can see book pages, nature images, friends, all will be 1 bit but who cares.

    If we had the possblity and an infinite life span, and if we layout all the possiblities of a 1MP image ( 2 to the power of 1 million) we would be able to see all the possibile images that we could see with our eyes in 1-bit format.

    Including all the pages, written in all avaliable books that are lost, present and not published (not written) and lots of gibberish. (including all goverment stuffand their probabilities)
    These images also include your self's childhood, today and future and it will include you ina probable past, a probable future and also a probable present.

    With a simple image all the possbilities including the fantasy is predefined. If we could layout a 16 bit color image map, we would be able to see the cosmos, plants, every people that walked, walking, will walk and will never walk, on this planed with all the color posiibilites. A red sky a blue sky (think about photoshop)

    Here comes the quantum stuff.

    assuming you guys know mavefunction collapse or manyworlds interpretation and etc.

    Is there an answer why every possible thing that i can see with my own eyes is predifined ? If i cannot take a picture of it icannot see it correct as eyes work like a digital camera ?
    Why past present future and their probabilities as an image is predefined mathematically ?
    Also why phantasies dreams(strange worlds and strange scenesand all posbbilities) are pre definied even they are not present in real life. I can make a drawing of my dream and phantasy right ? Think about picacasso even before he drew his famus art works they were pre defined in the image matrix space.

    If there are ManyWorlds why is there a need to define all these images from the beginning ?
    If there is a wavefunction collapse, why all the possbilities of the "image" is predifined to all the possible outcomes of the wavefunction ?

    And most absurdly, If it is not pre defined in the image matrix there is no way that i can make it happen right (you can put a boing blue pring in an image, an electronics schematic and most strange ly a religius book)? remember the tictactoe game there are only 512 possbilities I cannot add another one. So referring to the game that I can only imagine/dream and see only the possbilities of the image matrix within its predefined boundry.

    Why is there a need for such a barrier in terms of quantum mechanics ?

    I hope you guys dont think about this funny. =D

    Waiting for you ideas
    Have a nice day guys.
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2008
  2. jcsd
  3. Mar 29, 2008 #2
    Hello. I must immediately give one advice. Try to make your point in as short post as possible. Long posts have the effect, that people don't want to read it whole, they glance it through quickly, and the chances of misunderstandings increase. Frankly, I'm merely glancing this through quickly too, now! Correspondingly, I don't claim to understand what you are talking about. My opinion on your post anyway is this:

    This part

    seems appropriate for the philosophy sub-forum. Hypothetical possibility of seeing all possible images of certain form can lead into some thinking deserving paradoxes.

    This part,

    looks dangerously confusing. I understood nothing about how QM gets involved in the previous thoughts.
  4. Mar 29, 2008 #3


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    Gold Member

    1] Having 512 images of the tic-tac-toe game in your possession does not constrain any given move, does it? So why would having all 2^10^6 images of reality constrain any given future?

    2] The whole thing about image resolution is that it's never enough to faithfully capture reality. For each and every one of those 2^10^6 images you have, there are an infinite number of possible actions that can be taken in the universe (or even locally) that the image is too coarse to capture. From 1 mile away, you could move a bright red ball pretty freely without it affecting the image. From 1 foot away, you could move a lot of atoms around quite a bit without affecting the image.
  5. Mar 29, 2008 #4


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    Staff: Mentor

    Normal black and white photos are not 1 bit, they are at least 8 bit. Here are some samples. The first is a 8 bit, the second is a 1 bit nearest-color conversion, the third is a 1 bit, dithered. As you can see from the thumbnails, dithering essentiallly uses multiple pixels to simulate color depth, giving you the equivalent of an 8 bit image of 1/256 th the resolution of the original 8 bit image.
    Sure, but I don't think you realize just how big 2^1,000,000 is. My size 2 bit picture alone (.1 mp) has more potential combinations of pixels than there are particles in the universe. A lot more.
    This does go into philosophy now, so we'll have to figure out what to do with this thread, but briefly...

    The fact that the camera exists and there and there is a true finite limit to the combinations of pixels does not make every possible image predefined. You've imposed an artificial "graininess" on reality that doesn't exist in real life (quantum mechanics notwithstanding -- but we're way beyond that in the number of combinations anyway). This is a fairly classic conundrum, but it really is not possible to fully simulate reality from inside the universe. The possible states overwhealm the data storage.

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    Last edited: Mar 29, 2008
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