Simplex Point Picking: Distribution of x_i Over (0,1)

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter noowutah
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Point
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of randomly selecting points from a simplex defined by the condition that the coordinates sum to one. Participants explore methods for determining the distribution of these coordinates, specifically focusing on the probability distribution of one coordinate over the interval (0,1).

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes a method for picking points from the simplex using a transformation involving logarithms of uniformly distributed random variables, questioning the necessity of the minus sign in the transformation.
  • Another participant suggests that the probability density function (p.d.f) of one coordinate could be proportional to the volume of the remaining hyperpyramid formed by fixing one coordinate.
  • There is a discussion about the terminology used, with one participant clarifying that they meant to refer to a simplex rather than a hyperpyramid, and referencing the volume of a simplex in n dimensions.
  • One participant proposes a formula for the probability of a coordinate falling within a specific interval, involving the volume of a simplex, but later indicates that a ratio of volumes should be used instead of a difference.
  • Another participant acknowledges the need for a ratio in the probability calculation and thanks the previous contributor for the clarification.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the correct formulation of the probability density function and the appropriate mathematical approach to calculating the distribution of coordinates. There is no consensus on the final method or formula to be used.

Contextual Notes

Participants note potential confusion regarding terminology and the mathematical definitions involved, particularly around the concepts of simplex and hyperpyramid. There is also mention of the need for integrating the proposed p.d.f to obtain probabilities over intervals.

noowutah
Messages
56
Reaction score
3
I have an application where I need to pick a probability distribution [itex](x_{1},\ldots,x_{n})[/itex] at random and uniformly from the simplex of all points for which the coordinates add up to 1, i.e. [tex]\sum_{i=1}^{n}x_{i}=1.[/tex] Surprisingly, I didn't find much about simplex point picking on the internet, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Skinnerd/Simplex_Point_Picking appears to address this issue. Skinnerd suggests to pick individual members of [itex](y_{1},\ldots,y_{n})[/itex] randomly from a uniform distribution over the interval [itex](0,1)[/itex] and then take [tex]x_{i}=\frac{\ln{}y_{i}}{\sum{}\ln{}y_{i}}.[/tex] So far so good (although, why does he need the minus sign in his [itex]x_{i}=-\ln{}y_{i}[/itex]?).

My question is: what is the distribution of [itex]x_{i}[/itex] over the interval [itex](0,1)[/itex], i.e. what is the probability [itex]P(a<x<b)[/itex] that one of these coordinates is in [itex](a,b)\subseteq{}(0,1)[/itex]?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
If Xi = x, that leaves a hyperpyramid ##\Sigma_{i\neq i}X_j = 1 - x##. Can't you make the p.d.f of Xi proportional to the volume of that?
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: 1 person
volume of n-dimensional simplex

Great idea! I am a little confused about terminology. Hyperpyramid at http://physicsinsights.org/pyramids-1.html seems to mean that the height of the pyramid is the same as the side of the base -- which is not what we want here. We want something more like a generalization for [itex]n[/itex] dimensions of a pentatope, see http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pentatope.html. Mathworld advises on the volume of a simplex in [itex]n[/itex] dimensions at http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Cayley-MengerDeterminant.html. What haruspex is suggesting, as I see it, is that

[tex]P(0<x<b)=S(\sqrt{2})-S(\sqrt{2}(1-b))[/tex]

where [itex]S(z)[/itex] is the volume of a simplex in [itex]n[/itex] dimensions whose side length is [itex]z[/itex]. In our case, [itex]z=\sqrt{2}[/itex] because [itex]x_{1}+\ldots{}+x_{n}=1[/itex].
 
stlukits said:
Great idea! I am a little confused about terminology. Hyperpyramid at http://physicsinsights.org/pyramids-1.html seems to mean that the height of the pyramid is the same as the side of the base -- which is not what we want here. We want something more like a generalization for [itex]n[/itex] dimensions of a pentatope, see http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Pentatope.html.
Seems that simplex is the word I should have used.
Mathworld advises on the volume of a simplex in [itex]n[/itex] dimensions at http://mathworld.wolfram.com/Cayley-MengerDeterminant.html. What haruspex is suggesting, as I see it, is that

[tex]P(0<x<b)=S(\sqrt{2})-S(\sqrt{2}(1-b))[/tex]

where [itex]S(z)[/itex] is the volume of a simplex in [itex]n[/itex] dimensions whose side length is [itex]z[/itex]. In our case, [itex]z=\sqrt{2}[/itex] because [itex]x_{1}+\ldots{}+x_{n}=1[/itex].
Not sure that's quite what I was saying. For a start, there should be a ratio of volumes in there.
I think I'm saying the p.d.f., f(x) = Sn-1((1-x)√2)/Sn(√2), or maybe the subscripts should be n, n+1. You'd then to integrate that to get the interval probability.
 
Yes, indeed, it should be a ratio, not a difference. Thanks, haruspex!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
5K
Replies
1
Views
4K