Solving Fermions: Finding States & Energies

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the problem of finding the possible states and energies of a system of three neutrons, each with spin 1/2, given a specific Hamiltonian. The focus is on the antisymmetry of the wave functions and the implications of the Hamiltonian's lack of spatial dependence.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the spin functions must be antisymmetrical due to the nature of fermions, but questions how these spin functions are constructed without spatial dependence in the Hamiltonian.
  • Another participant proposes starting with two-spin (1/2) wave functions and using Clebsch-Gordan coefficients to find all possible three-spin (1/2) wave functions.
  • A different viewpoint asserts that there is no antisymmetric combination of three spin 1/2 particles and suggests coupling mixed symmetry spin states with mixed symmetry spatial states or coupling symmetric spin and spatial states.
  • It is noted that without spatial dependence in the Hamiltonian, one can directly apply the total spin values S=3/2 and S=1/2 in calculations.
  • One participant acknowledges the need for orbital angular momentum to achieve total antisymmetry, reiterating the lack of spatial dependence in the Hamiltonian.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the construction of antisymmetric states for three spin 1/2 particles, with some asserting the impossibility of such combinations and others suggesting alternative approaches. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact nature of the states and energies.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about the spatial components of the Hamiltonian and the implications for the symmetry of the wave functions. The discussion does not resolve these aspects.

guidob
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Hello. I found this forum when i was looking for some help with the following problem:

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There are 3 neutrons (s=1/2). The hamiltonian of the system is:

H = S^2 - Sz^2 - (3/2)hbar^2

I need to found the possible states and energies.
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The functions must be antisymetrical, right? But there is no spatial dependence in H.
So, the spin functions must be antisymetrical?
In that case, I don't know how do spin functions look like.
(S=S1+S2+S3 and Sz=Sz1+... are the operators of the total spin).

I'd be really greatfull if somebody help me with this.
 
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You can start with the 2-spin (1/2) wave functions (you must know how they look like ritght?) Then using clebsh gordans, find all the possible 3--spin (1/2) wave functions.

Then you can look which are totally antisymmetric w.r.t particle exhange, and which are eigenfunctions of that hamiltionian etc.
 
There is no antisymmetric combination of three spin 1/2 particles.
You have to couple a mixed symmetry spin state with a mixed symmetry spatial state,
or couple symmetric spin and space states.
Assuming that H has no spatial component, you can just put S=3/2 and S=1/2 into your formula with all possible S_z.
 
yes, I forgot to add that, you need some orbital angular momentum to get total antisymetric.

But you don't have any spatial dependence in that hamiltonian, so just do what clem told you.
 
Thank you malawi and clem. I'll try that.

So, i must consider all the S=3/2 and S=1/2, with any Sz, as possible states?

You have been very helpful.

Guido.
 

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