Solving Integrals with Exponential Functions

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    Bernoulli
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around solving two differential equations that are identified as Bernoulli equations. Participants explore various methods for transforming and integrating these equations, focusing on the use of substitutions and integration techniques.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents two differential equations and requests assistance in solving them.
  • Another participant identifies the equations as Bernoulli equations and suggests a substitution method to transform them into linear equations.
  • Several participants discuss the substitution \( v = y^{1-n} \) for \( n=5 \) and derive expressions for \( y \) and \( y' \) based on this substitution.
  • There is a proposal to multiply through by an integrating factor \( e^{4x} \) to facilitate integration.
  • One participant claims to have derived an implicit general solution but questions its correctness.
  • Another participant provides an alternative solution and points out potential errors in the integration process of the first participant's approach.
  • Multiple participants express uncertainty about the integration steps and correct each other regarding the application of integration by parts.
  • Disagreements arise over the correct form of the final solutions, with participants revisiting their calculations and discussing factors that may have been overlooked.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the correctness of the solutions presented. There are competing views on the integration steps and the final forms of the solutions, with ongoing corrections and clarifications being made.

Contextual Notes

Participants note mistakes in the integration process and the handling of factors during calculations, indicating that some assumptions or steps may be missing or misapplied. The discussion reflects a collaborative effort to refine the solutions without resolving the overall correctness.

Who May Find This Useful

Readers interested in differential equations, particularly Bernoulli equations, and those looking to understand the nuances of integration techniques may find this discussion beneficial.

bergausstein
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Solve the ff:

$\displaystyle\frac{dy}{dx}-y=xy^5$

$\displaystyle\frac{dy}{dx}-\frac{y}{x}=-\frac{5}{2}x^2y^3$

can you help start solving these problems? thanks!
 
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These are Bernoulli equations. Such an equation may be written in the form:

$$\frac{dy}{dx}+P(x)y=Q(x)y^n$$

Use of the substitution:

$$v=y^{1-n}$$

will transform the ODE into a linear equation.
 

the n=5

$\displaystyle v=y^{1-5}=\frac{1}{y^4}$

$\displaystyle y=(\frac{1}{v})^{\frac{1}{4}}$

$\displaystyle y'=-\frac{1}{4}v^{-\frac{5}{4}}\frac{dv}{dx}$

substitute,

$\displaystyle y=(\frac{1}{v})^{\frac{1}{4}}$ and $\displaystyle y'=-\frac{1}{4}v^{-\frac{5}{4}}\frac{dv}{dx}$ to the original D.E

$\displaystyle -\frac{1}{4}v^{-\frac{5}{4}}\frac{dv}{dx}-\frac{1}{v^{\frac{1}{4}}}=x\frac{1}{v^{\frac{5}{4}}}$

multiplying both sides by $v^{\frac{5}{$}}$ and -4.

$\displaystyle \frac{dv}{dx}+4v=-4x$

the integrating factor is $e^{4x}$

$\displaystyle e^{4x}\frac{dv}{dx}+4ve^{4x}=-4xe^{4x}$

$\displaystyle \int D_x(e^{4x}v)=\int -4xe^{4x}$ the rhs using by parts

$\displaystyle e^{4x}v= -e^{4x}+\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}+c$

dividing both sides by $ e^{4x}$

$\displaystyle v= -1+\frac{1}{4}+\frac{c}{e^{4x}}$

now since $v=\frac{1}{y^4}$

$\displaystyle\frac{1}{y^4}=\frac{c}{e^{4x}}-\frac{3}{4}$ --->> this would be my implicit general solution

is my answer correct?
 
Last edited:
We are given:

$$\frac{dy}{dx}-y=xy^5$$

Use the substitution:

$$v=y^{-4}\implies\frac{dv}{dx}= -4y^{-5}\frac{dy}{dx}$$

Divide the original ODE by$y^5$ observing we are eliminating the trivial solution $y\equiv0$. We obtain:

$$y^{-5}\frac{dy}{dx}-y^{-4}=x$$

Applying the substitution we obtain:

$$\frac{dv}{dx}+4v=-4x$$

Multiply through by $e^{4x}$:

$$e^{4x}\frac{dv}{dx}+4e^{4x}v=-4xe^{4x}$$

This becomes:

$$\frac{d}{dx}\left(e^{4x}v \right)=-4xe^{4x}$$

Integrating (using IBP on the right (which you did incorrectly)), we obtain:

$$e^{4x}v=\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}\left(1-4x \right)+C$$

$$v=\frac{1}{4}\left(1-4x \right)+Ce^{-4x}$$

$$y^{-4}=\frac{1}{4}\left(1-4x \right)+Ce^{-4x}$$

Thus the solution may be given implicitly by:

$$y^4=\frac{4}{1-4x+Ce^{-4x}}$$

Note: the trivial solution we eliminated is not obtainable by the implicit solution gave above.
 
can you tell me where's my mistake in my solution above?
 
bergausstein said:
can you tell me where's my mistake in my solution above?

Edit: There is a small mistake in the integration. Sorry.

\displaystyle \begin{align*} \int{-4x\,e^{4x}\,dx} = -4x\,e^{4x} + \frac{1}{4}e^{4x} + C \end{align*}
 
Last edited:
$\displaystyle e^{4x}v= -xe^{4x}+\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}+c$

$\displaystyle v= -x+\frac{1}{4}+\frac{c}{e^{4x}}$

my final answer should be$\displaystyle\frac{1}{y^4}=\frac{c}{e^{4x}}-x+\frac{1}{4}$

am I right?
 
bergausstein said:
$\displaystyle e^{4x}v= -xe^{4x}+\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}+c$

$\displaystyle v= -x+\frac{1}{4}+\frac{c}{e^{4x}}$

my final answer should be$\displaystyle\frac{1}{y^4}=\frac{c}{e^{4x}}-x+\frac{1}{4}$

am I right?

Please re-read my last post. You keep missing the factor of -4 on the first term.
 
Prove It said:
Please re-read my last post. You keep missing the factor of -4 on the first term.

$\displaystyle\int -4xe^{4x}dx=-4\int xe^{4x}$

let $u=x$ and $du=dx$

let $dv=e^{4x}dx$ now $v=\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}$

$uv-\int vdu$

$\frac{1}{4}xe^{4x}-\frac{1}{4}\int e^{4x}dx$

$-4\left(\frac{1}{4}xe^{4x}-\frac{1}{4}\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}+c\right)= -xe^{4x}+\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}+c$

isn't correct?
 
  • #10
bergausstein said:
$\displaystyle\int -4xe^{4x}dx=-4\int xe^{4x}$

let $u=x$ and $du=dx$

let $dv=e^{4x}dx$ now $v=\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}$

$uv-\int vdu$

$\frac{1}{4}xe^{4x}-\frac{1}{4}\int e^{4x}dx$

$-4\left(\frac{1}{4}xe^{4x}-\frac{1}{4}\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}+c\right)= -xe^{4x}+\frac{1}{4}e^{4x}+c$

isn't correct?

Never mind, what you have is correct. I forgot the 1/4 factor in the v term.

I think this many mistakes means it's time for bed >_<
 

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