Some repetitive mistakes and misconceptions about DM, MOND, TeVeS, and cosmology

In summary, the conversation discusses the validity of MOND and its ability to make accurate predictions compared to LCDM. The first article mentioned highlights the success of MOND in predicting the first-to-second peak amplitude ratio of the acoustic peaks of the cosmic background radiation, whereas LCDM's prediction was falsified. The second article addresses the misconception that MOND is dead, and highlights its continued success in empirical tests. Finally, the conversation delves into the issue of whether MOND can accurately model the CMB power spectrum and other phenomena without including dark matter.
  • #1
juanrga
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First MOND was the first to predict the cosmic background radiation, as repeated in this recent article (2011)

http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v106/i12/e121303

in its page 121303-3:
A simple model motivated by MOND provided the only successful a priori prediction of the first-to-second peak amplitude ratio of the acoustic peaks of the cosmic background radiation: A1:2 = 2.4 predicted [21] vs 2.34 ± 0.09 measured [22].

Whereas the LCDM-1999 prediction was falsified (A1:2 = 1.8). Only after the WMAP data was known (A1:2 = 2.34 ± 0.09), the LCDM model was amended, to posteriori, to fit the available data.

Second, contrary to unfounded claims that MOND is dead, Physical Review Letters considers MOND serious enough to publish this very recent paper

http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v106/i12/e121303

and to Select it for a Viewpoint in Physics. And Science and Nature news consider this paper serious enough to launch news

http://news.sciencemag.org/sciencenow/2011/02/more-evidence-against-dark-matte.html?ref=ra

http://blogs.nature.com/news/2011/02/post_73.html

Maybe it is all because MOND has done another prediction, which has been brilliantly confirmed once again, whereas the LCDM model fails once again. See figure 2 in the PRL article and also the caption of the figure:
PRL-article said:
The data are well removed from the expectation of the standard cosmology (upper line), but follow the prediction of MOND (lower line) with no fitting whatsoever.
As reported in Science news (link above)
Jerry Sellwood said:
The real strength of Stacy's paper is that it points to something that can't be explained in cold dark matter, irrespective of whether MOND is right.

Third, TeVeS is not the relativistic generalisation of MOND but only a particular attempt to obtain a relativistic MOND. A violation of TeVeS does not imply a violation of MOND as some pretend...

In despite of repetitive misconceptions and mistakes MOND continues to work as well as it has been doinf in hundred of tests during decades. And in despite of so many premature claims that it «was abandoned» or «is dead». MOND continues to be highlighted in top-journals and in science news thanks to its empirical success, never rivaled by LCDM.
 
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  • #2
juanrga said:
Whereas the LCDM-1999 prediction was falsified (A1:2 = 1.8). Only after the WMAP data was known (A1:2 = 2.34 ± 0.09), the LCDM model was amended, to posteriori, to fit the available data.

Presumably, where he says the 'LCDM model was amended' he means that the best fit parameter estimates were amended. This isn't changing a model...

But, we have more data now than 12 years ago. Can MOND model the CMB power spectrum, with its value of a_0 fitted to the galaxy rotation curves, without including dark matter?

Second, contrary to unfounded claims that MOND is dead, Physical Review Letters considers MOND serious enough to publish this very recent paper

http://prl.aps.org/abstract/PRL/v106/i12/e121303

Presumably your post is aimed at me. I don't think I said that MOND was dead, just that I didn't know many people who still take it seriously.

Maybe it is all because MOND has done another prediction, which has been brilliantly confirmed once again, whereas the LCDM model fails once again.

Are you taking commission for these comments? Show me how MOND fits the full WMAP CMB spectrum, and how it models, e.g., the Bullet cluster without CDM, and then we can talk about MOND confirming predictions where LCDM fails.
Given that you have attempted to reopen a locked thread, with essentially no new content (i.e. you never attempted to answer Chalnoth in the original thread), this is done.
 
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1. What is DM, MOND, TeVeS, and cosmology?

DM stands for dark matter, which is an invisible substance that is theorized to make up a large portion of the universe's mass. MOND stands for Modified Newtonian Dynamics, which is an alternative theory to explain the observed gravitational effects without the need for dark matter. TeVeS stands for Tensor-Vector-Scalar gravity, another alternative theory to explain the observed gravitational effects. Cosmology is the study of the origin and evolution of the universe.

2. What are some common mistakes and misconceptions about DM, MOND, TeVeS, and cosmology?

One common mistake is confusing dark matter with dark energy. Dark energy is a different phenomenon that is believed to be responsible for the accelerating expansion of the universe, while dark matter is thought to be responsible for the observed gravitational effects on galaxies and clusters. Another misconception is that MOND or TeVeS have been proven to be the correct explanation for gravity, when in fact they are still theoretical and have not been fully supported by empirical evidence.

3. Why is dark matter important in cosmology?

Dark matter plays a crucial role in cosmology because it is believed to make up about 85% of the total mass in the universe. This means that without including dark matter in our models and theories, we would not be able to fully explain the observed gravitational effects on galaxies and clusters, nor the overall structure and evolution of the universe.

4. What evidence supports the existence of dark matter?

The main evidence for dark matter comes from observations of the rotation curves of galaxies, which show that the outer regions of galaxies are moving faster than they should be based on the visible matter alone. Other evidence includes gravitational lensing, the cosmic microwave background, and the large-scale structure of the universe.

5. Are there any ongoing experiments or studies related to DM, MOND, TeVeS, or cosmology?

Yes, there are many ongoing experiments and studies related to these topics. Some are focused on trying to directly detect dark matter particles, while others are exploring alternative theories to explain the observed gravitational effects. Cosmologists are also constantly studying the structure and evolution of the universe through observations and simulations. These ongoing efforts are crucial in advancing our understanding of these complex and fascinating topics.

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