Something I always wondered about electroweak theory

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    Electroweak Theory
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the electroweak theory, particularly focusing on the unification of electromagnetic and weak forces, the nature of particles at high energy levels, and the conceptual understanding of flavor and charge. Participants explore theoretical implications and relationships between different particles, including quarks and photons, and the potential for new interpretations or terminology.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about the unification of forces in electroweak theory, questioning whether flavor turns into charge or if there are new types of waves involved.
  • One participant describes the mathematical framework of the electroweak interaction, mentioning U(1)xSU(2) gauge invariance and the behavior of particles at high energies.
  • Another participant suggests that at high energies, carriers like photons and W/Z bosons exhibit similar properties and could be viewed as the same entity, coining the term "Quarph" to describe this relationship.
  • Some participants challenge the idea that quarks and photons are the same, asserting that they have fundamentally different properties, such as mass and spin.
  • There is a mention of the Salam-Weinberg theory, with one participant asserting that it supports the idea of quarks and photons being indistinguishable at high energies, while others express skepticism about this claim.
  • Theoretical implications of string theory are raised, with participants discussing whether all matter could behave similarly at high temperatures.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach consensus on the relationship between quarks and photons, with some asserting they are the same at high energies while others strongly disagree. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of electroweak theory and the interpretations of particle behavior.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific energy levels and theoretical frameworks, such as the Salam-Weinberg theory and string theory, which may not be universally accepted or verified across all sources. There are also ambiguities in terminology and definitions that contribute to the confusion expressed by participants.

ilocar
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the whole concept, I just don't get it. really its the unification I don't really understand. does flavor turn into charge? or is it some strange wave thing. does that mean that light takes on weak properties at high energy levels? or is there a new kind of light (like an electroweak wave?) and how does weak force fit into right-hand rule and inductance, or does that break down at the quantum level? thanks in advance for your wisdom.
 
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You can write the weak- and the EM interaction as one single term, a field with U(1)xSU(2) gauge invariance, the fields are then B, W_1, W_2, W_3. The W_1 = W+ and W_2 = W- (the ordinary W-bosons) and The photon and the Z boson is a linear combination of B and W_3. At high energies, the photon and Z boson interactions takes place at same rate and same strength.

For instance
e+e- -> virtual photon -> e+e-
e+e- -> Virtual Z -> e+e-

http://nobelprize.org/nobel_prizes/physics/laureates/1979/

You can read each winners lecture
 
ilocar said:
the whole concept, I just don't get it. really its the unification I don't really understand. does flavor turn into charge? or is it some strange wave thing. does that mean that light takes on weak properties at high energy levels? or is there a new kind of light (like an electroweak wave?) and how does weak force fit into right-hand rule and inductance, or does that break down at the quantum level? thanks in advance for your wisdom.
Put simply, at high energies, the carriers(photons and W+- Z or massive vector bosons) behave the same. They are in the same phase and exhibit the same properties. Quarks and photons are the same thing. If we could give a name we could just say they are Quarph(not including the strong interaction and gravity here). The symmetry will breakdown at lower energies since this is when the MVBs acquire their masses.

Simple though.
 
Abbas Sherif said:
If we could give a name we could just say they are Quarph(not including the strong interaction and gravity here).
Ouarf ?
 
Abbas Sherif said:
Quarks and photons are the same thing.

Absolutely untrue.
 
humanino said:
Ouarf ?

hypothetical superpartner to quarks in very exotic SUSY models :-p

or just a typo :-p
 
I think he's trying to say quarks and photons become the same thing and is coining his own word for it.
 
Vanadium 50 said:
I think he's trying to say quarks and photons become the same thing and is coining his own word for it.
But in order for this to make sense, you (IMHO) probably need ALL known particles to be the same, as in string theory. Even supersymmetry by itself is not enough. So my "ouarf" amounted to "that's quite a long shot".
 
Vanadium 50 said:
Absolutely untrue.
I quote again "at the proposed high energies (on the oreder of 100Gev), quarks and photons are indistinguishible and are the same according to the Salam-Weinberg theory" . You can check this with any website ob book on particle physics. And by the way thanks for clarifying the point that I meant to say quarks and photons are the same and was quoting my own word for it(please this is no word to be used,just some silly stuff).
 
  • #10
Abbas Sherif said:
I quote again "at the proposed high energies (on the oreder of 100Gev), quarks and photons are indistinguishible and are the same according to the Salam-Weinberg theory" . You can check this with any website ob book on particle physics. And by the way thanks for clarifying the point that I meant to say quarks and photons are the same and was quoting my own word for it(please this is no word to be used,just some silly stuff).

I have 10 books on elementary particle physics, it is a good manner to say WHERE the quote are coming from!
 
  • #11
Abbas Sherif said:
I quote again "at the proposed high energies (on the oreder of 100Gev), quarks and photons are indistinguishible and are the same according to the Salam-Weinberg theory" . You can check this with any website ob book on particle physics. And by the way thanks for clarifying the point that I meant to say quarks and photons are the same and was quoting my own word for it(please this is no word to be used,just some silly stuff).

Maybe I don't have enough experience to say this, but how in the world does a quark and a photon ever appear or become the same? Photons have no rest mass and spin 1. Quarks have a non-zero rest mass and spin 1/2. I'm just a little curious here...

And salem Weinberg Theory is just another name for electroweak theory, right? Well, if so, I looked on the Internet and I haven't found anything that verifies what you are saying.
 
  • #12
I think he got massive vector bosons confused with Quarks, or something to that effect. Although, theoretically, if string theory is correct then wouldn't all matter act the same if you got hot enough? becouse it would all just be "String" right?
 
  • #13
ilocar said:
I think he got massive vector bosons confused with Quarks, or something to that effect. Although, theoretically, if string theory is correct then wouldn't all matter act the same if you got hot enough? becouse it would all just be "String" right?

The matter woudn't vibrate the same. Spin 2 stays spin 2, and so forth, I believe.
 

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