Space-time quantization and its philosophical aspect

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of space-time quantization and its philosophical implications, particularly in relation to the representation of matter in modern physics and the comparison to cellular automata like Conway's Game of Life. Participants explore the nature of information required to describe particles and the implications of discrete versus continuous models.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • One participant argues that modern physics requires an infinite amount of information to describe particles accurately, suggesting that this may not be the most intuitive approach.
  • The same participant proposes that cellular automata, such as Conway's Game of Life, might provide a more realistic model by using discrete values, thus requiring a finite amount of information.
  • Concerns are raised about the limitations of the Game of Life in reproducing reality, particularly regarding the laws of conservation and thermodynamics.
  • Another participant challenges the initial claim about the use of real numbers in physics, noting that quantum mechanics frequently employs imaginary numbers.
  • There is a mention of the psychological arrow of time and how it contrasts with the predictability of states in the Game of Life.
  • A reference is made to Stephen Wolfram's work in "A New Kind of Science," indicating that similar ideas have been explored, though they are considered controversial.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the adequacy of current physical models and the implications of using discrete versus continuous representations. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives presented.

Contextual Notes

The discussion touches on complex philosophical and theoretical aspects of physics, which may not be fully addressed due to the closure of the thread for moderation.

Spathi
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Modern physics describes matter by real numbers. This means that an absolutely accurate description of any particle requires an infinite amount of information.

Intuitively, it seems that this should not be so, and the model of the Conway's Game of Life looks more close to reality. In this game, the state of the system is described by discrete values, i.e. a finite amount of information is sufficient to describe the system. The question arises, are there any analogs of the Game of Life (cellular automata), in which the laws of conservation and the laws of thermodynamics work?

The Game of Life clearly reproduces reality very poorly, since it does not contain any of this. In addition, this game has a different arrow of time. In our reality, we experrience a psychological arrow of time: we remember the events of the past and predict the events of the future, and this knowledge about the past and the future is very asymmetric - information about the past is much more voluminous, more specific, detailed, more reliable than the information about the future.

In the game Life, if there were intelligent beings, it would be the opposite: according to the state of the system at the moment of the present, it is possible to accurately predict the state of the system in the future, but it is impossible to recreate the state of the system in the past.
 
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Spathi said:
Modern physics describes matter by real numbers. This means that an absolutely accurate description of any particle requires an infinite amount of information. Intuitively, it seems that this should not be so, and the model of the Conway's Game of Life looks more close to reality. In this game, the state of the system is described by discrete values, i.e. a finite amount of information is sufficient to describe the system. The question arises, are there any analogs of the Game of Life (cellular automata), in which the laws of conservation and the laws of thermodynamics work? The Game of Life clearly reproduces reality very poorly, since it does not contain any of this. In addition, this game has a different arrow of time. In our reality, we experrience a psychological arrow of time: we remember the events of the past and predict the events of the future, and this knowledge about the past and the future is very asymmetric - information about the past is much more voluminous, more specific, detailed, more reliable than the information about the future. In the game Life, if there were intelligent beings, it would be the opposite: according to the state of the system at the moment of the present, it is possible to accurately predict the state of the system in the future, but it is impossible to recreate the state of the system in the past.
A lot to unpick there. First statement is wrong though QM uses imaginary numbers all the time.
@PeroK @vanhees71
 
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Thread closed for Moderation. (any thread with "philosophical" in the title is an issue...)
 
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