The Effect of Time-Varying Electric Fields on a 2-Level Ion System

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the effects of time-varying electric fields on a two-level ion system, particularly in the context of how to treat the motion of the ion and the electric field's influence. Participants explore theoretical implications, practical applications, and the conditions under which certain effects may be neglected or become significant.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes separating the problem into center of mass motion and internal two-level system motion, questioning if this approach neglects any coupling between the internal and external degrees of freedom.
  • Another participant suggests that the approach would work if the electric field is homogeneous, noting that inhomogeneity could lead to different effects on the electron cloud and ion core.
  • There is a discussion about the implications of the Stark effect, with one participant mentioning that it can often be neglected in typical Paul trap scenarios, except in cases like atomic clocks where precision is critical.
  • Clarification is sought regarding the distinction between electric fields and electromagnetic fields, with emphasis on the nature of the fields being discussed.
  • One participant notes that an oscillatory electric field would inherently involve a sinusoidal magnetic field, raising questions about the interaction between the two fields and their combined effects on the ion.
  • Another participant describes a specific setup involving two plates applying a time-varying field with a phase difference, indicating a practical application of the discussed concepts.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the implications of field homogeneity and the significance of the Stark effect, indicating that multiple competing perspectives remain on how to approach the problem and the conditions under which certain assumptions hold.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for clarity on the definitions of electric and electromagnetic fields, as well as the assumptions regarding field strength and homogeneity that may affect the analysis.

Malamala
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Hello! If I have an ion which can be treated as a 2 level system, in a time varying electric field (the variation of the field doesn't need to be on or close to resonance, but for simplicity we can assume it is an oscillatory field) can I simply separate the problem into a center of mass motion and an internal 2 level system motion. Basically the ion would move up and down under the influence of the field, but in the ion's rest frame we would just have a normal time varying field, as if the ion wouldn't move at all. Would this work or am I missing some coupling between the internal and external degrees of freedom? Thank you!
 
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You mean like in a Paul trap?
 
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Yes, it would work as long as the electric field is homogenous, meaning, the value and direction of the electric field is the same everywhere where the ion is embedded. If there is inhomogeneity, then electron cloud and ion core may be pulled differently.
If electric field is very strong, then you may have other effects.
 
LuisP said:
Yes, it would work as long as the electric field is homogenous, meaning, the value and direction of the electric field is the same everywhere where the ion is embedded. If there is inhomogeneity, then electron cloud and ion core may be pulled differently.
If electric field is very strong, then you may have other effects.
@DrClaude yes. My question was in general but indeed that would be a physical implementations of the system.

@LuisP I assume you mean homogenous in space, as in for a given moment in time, the field in a region completely enclosing the ion is constant in space? What would be the requirements for this? Is a light wavelength much bigger than the atomic size enough?
 
Malamala said:
@DrClaude yes. My question was in general but indeed that would be a physical implementations of the system.
I was asking because the answer of course depends on the strength of the field. There is of course the Stark effect, but for a typical Paul trap it can be neglected in most cases (an exception might be if you are using the ion as an atomic clock, where even small effects must be accounted for).
Malamala said:
@LuisP I assume you mean homogenous in space, as in for a given moment in time, the field in a region completely enclosing the ion is constant in space? What would be the requirements for this? Is a light wavelength much bigger than the atomic size enough?
Are you talking about electric fields (as mentioned in the OP) or electromagnetic fields? These are different beasts. (To be clear: an electric field is what is created by two charged electrodes, while people usually use "electromagnetic field" to talk about electromagnetic radiation.)
 
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DrClaude said:
I was asking because the answer of course depends on the strength of the field. There is of course the Stark effect, but for a typical Paul trap it can be neglected in most cases (an exception might be if you are using the ion as an atomic clock, where even small effects must be accounted for).
Are you talking about electric fields (as mentioned in the OP) or electromagnetic fields? These are different beasts. (To be clear: an electric field is what is created by two charged electrodes, while people usually use "electromagnetic field" to talk about electromagnetic radiation.)
Well in the original post I mentioned an oscillatory electric field (like sinusoidal). You can't have this without a sinusoidal magnetic field being created, right? So the ion will see both anyway. What I had in mind specifically was something along the line of having 2 plates to which I apply a time varying field (with a phase difference of ##\pi## between them) at a given frequency (on the order of kHz). So basically it is like an RF field applied to the ion. I am not sure I totally understand the difference you make between the 2 cases.
 
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