Understanding the Direct Product of Groups: Applying Group Theory Axioms

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the application of group theory axioms to demonstrate that the Cartesian product of two groups forms a group. Participants explore the definition of a binary operation on the Cartesian product and the verification of group properties such as closure, identity, and inverses.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • One participant asks how to confirm that the Cartesian product of two groups is also a group using group theory axioms.
  • Another participant suggests that verifying the satisfaction of group axioms is necessary, questioning how to define a binary operation on the Cartesian product.
  • A participant proposes a specific binary operation for the Cartesian product of two groups and requests a proof that this structure is a group.
  • Concerns are raised about proving the associativity and other group properties, indicating difficulties with the proofs.
  • One participant outlines the proofs for closure, identity, and inverse elements, asserting that these properties hold for the proposed operation.
  • A later post expresses gratitude for assistance and shifts the focus to proving that a defined function is a homomorphism, one-to-one, and onto.
  • Another participant suggests that the original poster should demonstrate their own attempts rather than seeking direct solutions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the need to verify group properties for the Cartesian product, but there is no consensus on the approach to proving the homomorphism and related properties of the defined function.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty regarding the proofs of associativity and other properties, indicating that further clarification or examples may be needed.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and practitioners of group theory, particularly those interested in the properties of group operations and the structure of group products.

Monkeyfry180
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How do we know that the cartesian product of any two groups is also a group using the axioms of group theory?
 
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Exactly like that! You verify that all the axioms defining a group are satisfied. But this is if you know what the group operation is on the product.

But perhaps your question is "how do we define a binary operation on the cartesian product of two groups that makes it into a group"?
 
Well let's say we have the two groups G1 and G2 with operations *1 and *2, respectively, and we do the cartesian product to get
G1 x G2 = { (a,b) : a is an element of G1, and b is an element of G2} = G

with the binary operation, * let's say, defined by
(a,b) * (c,d) = (a *1 c, b *2 d)

Prove that (G, *) is a group.

I tried setting up a table of what this would look like, but I'm having some real issues with this
 
It's easy to talk myself through associativity, but the other three are giving me trouble
 
- Closure: This is obvious. a *1 c is a member of G1, and b *2 d is a member of G2. Thus, (a *1 c,b *2 d) is a member of G1 x G2 by definition.
- Identity element: If e1 is the identity in G1, and e2 is the identity in G2, the identity in G1 x G2 is (e1,e2).
- Inverse element: With a *1 c = e1 and b *2 d = e2, (a *1 c,b *2 d) = (e1,e2), and (c,d) is therefore the inverse of (a,b).
 
Alright, I just did the proofs and got the same answer, thank you so much.

Also, using those same values, if f1: G1 --> G is defined by f1(g) = (g, e2), how can we prove that f1 is an homomorphism, one to one, and onto?
 
Perhaps you can show what you have tried, instead of letting us do your homework?
 

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