Could This Tragic Oakland Fire Have Been Prevented?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the tragic Oakland fire that resulted in numerous fatalities during an electronic dance party in a converted warehouse. Participants explore the circumstances surrounding the fire, including the building's safety conditions, the lack of permits, and the implications for similar venues. The conversation touches on themes of safety regulations, community responsibility, and the risks associated with unregulated spaces.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express that the fire was preventable due to the lack of proper inspections and enforcement of safety regulations.
  • Several comments highlight the unsafe conditions of the warehouse, including makeshift stairs, absence of sprinklers, and inadequate fire alarms.
  • Participants share emotional responses and personal connections to the tragedy, emphasizing the human cost of such incidents.
  • There are references to similar situations in other cities, such as Dallas, where local authorities have begun enforcing safety codes in underground venues.
  • Some participants discuss the challenges of balancing safety regulations with the desire for creative and community spaces.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that the conditions leading to the fire were unsafe and that regulatory oversight is necessary. However, there are competing views on how to balance safety with the need for creative spaces, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best approach to prevent similar tragedies in the future.

Contextual Notes

There are limitations regarding the assumptions made about safety regulations and the definitions of permitted use for such spaces. The discussion also reflects varying perspectives on the enforcement of codes and the implications for community-driven events.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be of interest to community organizers, safety regulators, urban planners, and individuals involved in the arts and event planning, particularly in relation to venue safety and regulatory compliance.

berkeman
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Very sad and preventable, IMO. Probably dozens of young artists killed by a fire at a party in their improvised workspace in a warehouse in Oakland.

http://abc7news.com/news/families-search-for-loved-ones-after-deadly-oakland-fire/1638350/

Early reports are that the warehouse was converted without permits, and there were unpermitted structural and electrical improvements. This is one of the reasons that we don't allow amateur threads here about dangerous/advanced projects that involve life safety... My son could have been there -- thankfully he was not there last night and is okay.

This is a very heartfelt Facebook post by a friend of mine who is a Fire Captain of at large neighboring community

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...22575778197.2020271.1041176125&type=3&theater
 
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You know how the "like" was meant. I've been in places like this before and can feel the tragic about it.
 
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http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire/index.html
Oakland, California (CNN)At least 24 people have been confirmed dead in a massive blaze that gutted a converted warehouse over the weekend during an electronic dance party.

The death toll is expected to rise as crews search the wreckage of the two-story building, which burst into flames late Friday night. Only some 20% of the building had been searched as of Sunday morning, authorities said.
 
nsaspook said:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/04/us/california-oakland-fire/index.html
The 27-year-old Mulé told CNN more than 20 people living in the warehouse, paid rent and were all involved in the creation of the space.
The warrehouse was definitely not zoned or permitted for habitation.
CNN has reached out to the property owners for comment. Johnna Watson, Oakland police spokeswoman, said the building was not deemed a crime scene, but it was still early in the investigation.
That will probably change soon, based on the illegal habitation and unpermitted renovations.
 
Death toll is now at 33 and will probably continue to climb. The fire department was located a block away and they were there in three minutes. Unfortunately, fire spreads very quickly - especially if you give it lots of fuel.
berkeman said:
This is a very heartfelt Facebook post by a friend of mine who is a Fire Captain of at large neighboring community
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...22575778197.2020271.1041176125&type=3&theater
From that link, the before pictures are here - Oakland Ghost Ship. Looked like a 60's commune. Definitely a maze of little rooms and a massive amount of combustables. :oldfrown:
 
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http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/baltimore-city/bs-md-ci-bell-foundry-20161205-story.html
Tania Baker, a spokeswoman for the city housing department, said the property at 1539 N. Calvert St. was "vacated" by code enforcement inspectors because there were "holes in the floor on the second level, electrical issues, and evidence that individuals were living in the property without a proper use and occupancy permit."

The Fire Department immediately issued a cease-and-desist order barring tenants from using the building, while housing officials boarded up the building as condemned.

I understand they don't like being put out on the street but this madness of letting people live in known fire traps has to stop.
 
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:oldcry::oldcry::oldcry::oldcry::oldcry::oldcry:
 
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In Dallas Texas the local Fire Marshal started to code enforce these places for the safety of the people inside long before this fire. Going deep underground is a very counter-productive response to fire safely.
http://www.dallasobserver.com/music...es-struggle-to-survive-city-crackdown-8000794
The location of the party is top secret. There are no fliers, no public advertisements, not even an address for those who have been invited. There is only a private group on Facebook, and a message: “WE ARE THE UNDERGROUND. WE WILL NEVER SURRENDER. IN THE SHADOWS WE ARE FREE."
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For the most part, these do-it-yourself parties are illegal, operated under the table without permits, alcohol licenses or any consideration of fire code. So evading the authorities, and getting shut down, is all part of the game. But the city's recent efforts have made the dance scene tense. “The more parties that get shut down, the more theories there are,” says Toni Youngblood, whose Sparkle party — an off-the-grid warehouse party — was shut down by the fire marshal on New Year's Eve. “Everybody's witch-hunting now. The more unfamiliar faces in the crowd, it's like, 'That guy. Who's that guy?'”

Tonight, the fire marshal never shows up. The Resistance has persevered, at least for now.

http://www.dmagazine.com/arts-enter...shal-addresses-clampdown-on-small-art-spaces/
“I try to step outside the box and look at it from the other side,” Martinez says, when asked if art functions and galleries are being targeted. “I definitely understand the impression it can give.” But he says his department eyes all assemblies. For these particular events, he sees a pattern of unmarked or possibly blocked exits, a lack of sprinklers, and occupant loads being exceeded.

Some of these spaces are up to code, but the issue lies with the building not having the right kind of certificate of occupancy (CO) for an event. “I understand that some people could wonder what the real concern is if the safety is there,” Martinez says. “But technically it is a violation and we have to note it on a notice of violation.” He also points out that a notice of violation does not equal a fine.
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“We’ve been working feverishly behind the scenes to resolve this,” Martinez says. But he is not necessarily willing to be lenient in the meantime. “We’ll do the best we can to enforce that code as reasonably and objectively as we can for safety.”