- #1
Saint
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What do they mean in US politic?
And, what are left-wing and right-wing ?
What are Hawk and Dove in US politics ?
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- Thread starter Saint
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Discussion Overview
The discussion revolves around the concepts of "Hawk" and "Dove" in U.S. politics, exploring their meanings, implications, and the broader political spectrum including left-wing and right-wing ideologies. The conversation touches on historical contexts, particularly in relation to war and peace, and the evolving nature of political labels.
Discussion Character
- Exploratory
- Debate/contested
- Conceptual clarification
Main Points Raised
- Some participants define a hawk as someone who supports war and a dove as someone who opposes it.
- There is a suggestion that political labels like "liberal" and "conservative" have become ambiguous and corrupted over time.
- One participant proposes a political spectrum that includes various ideologies, suggesting that American politics has shifted rightward due to neo-conservatism.
- Another participant notes that while hawks and doves are often used to describe politicians, the terms may not accurately reflect the complexities of their positions on different issues.
- There is a historical reference to the terms "Hawks" and "Doves" being particularly relevant during the Vietnam War, with a suggestion that their usage has diminished in contemporary discussions.
Areas of Agreement / Disagreement
Participants express differing views on the clarity and relevance of the terms "Hawk" and "Dove," as well as the definitions of left-wing and right-wing politics. There is no consensus on the current applicability of these labels or their meanings.
Contextual Notes
Participants acknowledge that the definitions of political labels are influenced by historical context and may vary significantly over time. The discussion highlights the complexity of categorizing political beliefs and the potential for misunderstanding in contemporary political discourse.
What do they mean in US politic?
And, what are left-wing and right-wing ?
- #2
russ_watters
Mentor
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A basically, hawk is someone who wants war, a dove is someone who doesn't.
Left and Right are the ends of the political spectrum. Left is "liberal" and right is "conservative" - that applies to the politics of just about any nation.
Left and Right are the ends of the political spectrum. Left is "liberal" and right is "conservative" - that applies to the politics of just about any nation.
- #3
Saint
- 437
- 0
So, Bush is Hawk, and Clinton is Dove?
- #4
HAVOC451
- 7
- 1
Communism-------socialism----------X----------federalism-------Fascism
Here is a simple political spectrum. Ideally, democracy encompasses the egalitarian center between socialism and federalism.(X) Totalitarian states lie along the line outward from socialism to communism and from federalism to fascism.
Liberal and conservative should be within the democratic center of the spectrum. However, in american politics this is more and more distorted by neo conservatism which occupies the line somewhere between federalism and fascism. Neoconservatives equate liberalism with socialism and communism. The center then, tends to drift rightward.
Here is a simple political spectrum. Ideally, democracy encompasses the egalitarian center between socialism and federalism.(X) Totalitarian states lie along the line outward from socialism to communism and from federalism to fascism.
Liberal and conservative should be within the democratic center of the spectrum. However, in american politics this is more and more distorted by neo conservatism which occupies the line somewhere between federalism and fascism. Neoconservatives equate liberalism with socialism and communism. The center then, tends to drift rightward.
- #5
Zero
You can forget all of that, except for HAVOC451's post...maybe. At this point every U.S. politician is professionally hawkish. The only difference is in degree.
As far as "liberal" and "conservative"? Your guess is as good as mine; the labels have been so corrupted over the years, especially "conservative", that there is no simple answer.
As far as "liberal" and "conservative"? Your guess is as good as mine; the labels have been so corrupted over the years, especially "conservative", that there is no simple answer.
- #6
Njorl
Science Advisor
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"The Hawk and Dove" is a nice tavern on capital hill in DC.
Hawks favor war, doves favor peace. One can be generally hawkish, or dovish, or, one can be a hawk on Iraq, and a Dove on Bosnia for instance. It is not a great system for labelling. One irony is that almost all generals oppose almost all wars. Should we really label them doves?
Left-wing and right-wing are generlly the extremes of liberal and conservative, respectively. It is a bit clumsy, as there are multiple facets to what makes one liberal or conservative. There are also big issues, like trade, which defy labelling.
Njorl
Hawks favor war, doves favor peace. One can be generally hawkish, or dovish, or, one can be a hawk on Iraq, and a Dove on Bosnia for instance. It is not a great system for labelling. One irony is that almost all generals oppose almost all wars. Should we really label them doves?
Left-wing and right-wing are generlly the extremes of liberal and conservative, respectively. It is a bit clumsy, as there are multiple facets to what makes one liberal or conservative. There are also big issues, like trade, which defy labelling.
Njorl
- #7
selfAdjoint
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
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Actually the Hawks and Doves were special to the Vietnam war. Although there are a lot of opponents of the Iraq war, and a lot of enthusiasts for it, I haven't seen the terms hawk and dove used recently.