What Causes Negative Gravitational Force Between Particles?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the concept of negative gravitational force between an electron and a proton, exploring its implications for attraction or repulsion. Participants examine the theoretical underpinnings of gravitational force, its mathematical representation, and the potential for negative gravitational effects in different contexts.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that a negative gravitational force implies repulsion between the electron and proton, while others argue that gravitational force is inherently attractive and cannot be negative.
  • One participant mentions that gravitational force depends on the product of masses and distance, asserting that a negative product is not possible under normal circumstances.
  • Another participant recalls a class discussion where a negative gravitational force was mentioned, questioning its implications and whether it could be a misunderstanding of gravitational force.
  • Some contributions reference general relativity and the concept of antigravity on cosmological scales, suggesting that negative gravitational effects could arise from a non-zero cosmological constant.
  • A participant provides a mathematical perspective, indicating that the negative sign in Newton's Law of gravity denotes direction rather than indicating repulsion.
  • There is mention of negative pressure in general relativity, which some participants connect to the idea of repulsive gravity, referencing external literature for further context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the nature of negative gravitational force. There are competing views regarding whether it indicates repulsion or if it is a misunderstanding of gravitational principles.

Contextual Notes

Some participants express uncertainty about the definitions and conditions under which negative gravitational force might be discussed, particularly in relation to classical versus relativistic frameworks.

matt85
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What does it mean if between an electron and a proton has negative gravitational force? Does this make the force attractive or repulsive?
 
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Verbally, It means two masses (electron and proton -in your case) will be replelling each other.
But it is not possible b'coz Gravitational force depends on the product of masses and distance - and under any circumstance there is no way the product is coming out as "negative" to make a negative gravitational force.
 
In the answer to a question last week from class, it was in fact negative. I know that for electrical force this would be attraction, but what would this mean for gravitational? Repulsion?
 
In the answer to a question last week from class, it was in fact negative.
Well it couldn't be Gravitational force -you are talking about then. Either you have mistaken something else as Gravitational force or there is something wrong with your solution to the problem.
 
The theories indicate that centripal force and the speed of an electron keep it orbit. The speed of electrons increases in fixed steps, each step representing a higher or lower kinetic energy state. I assume that the lowest step of engery is enough to prevent the electron from collapsing into the nucleus, else matter would be real unstable. When electrons step down in energy, they often release photons (I'm not sure of the exact requirements for photon release). Electrons can also absorb photons, but I'm don't remember if it's enough to jump them up to the next energy state.

It's pretty complicated, some orbital patterns are though not to even be elliptical, but figure 8 like. A collision between an electron and positron results in total conversion of the matter into energy. I don't know what happens with an electron / proton collision.
 
.:JimmY:. said:
Verbally, It means two masses (electron and proton -in your case) will be replelling each other.
But it is not possible b'coz Gravitational force depends on the product of masses and distance - and under any circumstance there is no way the product is coming out as "negative" to make a negative gravitational force.
GR allows for negative gravitational force (aka antigravity) on cosmological scales. Since the universe is expanding at an accelerate the phenomena is said to result from antigravity which in term results from a non-zero cosmological constant.

Pete
 
matt85 said:
What does it mean if between an electron and a proton has negative gravitational force?
I don't understand what you mean. Can you give us the exact question from your class?

"Negative" just indicates a direction; of course, for gravity the force is always attractive. Whether that's negative or positive, depends on how you have defined things.

Perhaps you talking about Newton's Law of gravity written this way:

[tex]\vec{F} = - G \frac{m_1 m_2}{r^2} \hat{r}[/tex]

In this formula, F represents the gravitational force of [itex]m_1[/itex] on [itex]m_2[/itex], where [itex]\vec{r}[/itex] is the position of [itex]m_2[/itex] with respect to [itex]m_1[/itex]. The negative sign just means that the force is opposite to the direction [itex]\hat{r}[/itex], which means that the force on [itex]m_2[/itex] points toward [itex]m_1[/itex].
 
negative gravity means repulsion as posted above. But conventional matter does not exhibit repulsive gravity. It is represented in general relativity byu the cosmological constant. Einstein showed that gravity is based on mass, energy and pressure. Negative pressure means begative (repulsive) gravity. "The Fabric of the Cosmos" by Brian Greene discusses this in Chapter 10.
 

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